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Record 14 of 51
title:   Coprophagia                                                          ID:  16
author:   many
description:   Eating poop
content:   BERNER-L Digest 375

Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 22:43:36 -0400
From: dawn@idirect.com (Dawn)
To: berner-l@prairienet.orgt
Subject: Mushrooms/Toadstools

Hi Berner-lers;
I hate to keep posting with questions, and no funny stories, but hopefully those will come in time. Marlee is now 5.5 months old,
and has developed the most charming and sassy personality. She has learned that barking REALLY LOUDLY gets our attention every time - but
that's a question for another time.
First question: We have mushrooms/toadstools (I don't know the
difference - perhaps someone might wish to enlighten me) growing in our
backyard. They seem to crop up overnight - usually in the shady parts of the yard, but sometimes in the centre of the lawn, where the sun
hits full-tilt in the daytime. I spend the first half hour every morning on "mushroom patrol", picking the crop from the night before, but
I know I must miss some. Today I found a field of them by the woodpile. They are abundant after a rainfall, it seems. Although we watch her
carefully in the yard, I suspect that Marlee is eating them on occasion. She has a bout of diarrhoea every week or two, but only for one
day or night - so I know she has eaten something diagreeable. She is a total pig and eats everything she sees, and it scares the hell out
of me. Does anyone know of a dog-safe lawn and garden
spray or treatment that prevents the growth of fungus?
Question two: Marlee is an occasional poop-eater - as discussed
before (don't worry, I'm not trying to open this one up again :)) I have used the product FOR-BID on two occasions, and both times she had
diarrhoea while I was feeding it. I am trying to figure out whether the diarrhoea is happening because of the
"mushroom-and-everything-else" grazing or from the FOR-BID. Has anyone else found that FOR-BID brings about diarrhoea? The active
ingredients are "a purified vegetable protein fraction and sodium glutamate" - doesn't sound too disruptive, but you never know.

Dawn (stop it - leave it - put that down!!!!)
and Marlee (Mmmm - good 'shrooms - hope it rains again tonight)
dawn@idirect.com
Willowdale, Ontario, Canada
dawn@idirect.com


------------------------------

BERNER-L Digest 449


Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:18:51 -0700
From: EWalker@bronson.com (Elizabeth G. Walker)
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Eating Poop

My Samka used to be incorrigible about this. My vet gave me a reason
why she might be doing it -- I'll be darned if I can remember what it
was. I know there are pills that you can give the dogs which make
their excrement taste bad, but my vet had an easier remedy, which
worked. For a few days, I went outside and sprinkled Tabasco sauce on
any stools sitting there. (I made sure she had plenty of water
available for when she finally ate one.)

P.S. I tried to give my son the job of Tabasco Dispenser, but he
refused -- he was afraid someone would see him and think he was
preparing these snacks for his own consumption!

Liz Walker
Dublin

------------------------------

BERNER-L Digest 617

Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:22:51, -0500
From: AFHA12A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE J WETZEL)
To: berner-l@prairienet.org, dragonfiredogs@juno.com, dragonfiredogs@juno.com
Subject: stool eating

-- [ From: Louise J Wetzel * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] --

Hi everyone,

I know there are vets on this list and others who use alot of natural
remedies for things. I am being driven crazy by my dogs who have just
started eating each other's stool.

Sophie my Berner will be seven in September. She is eating Science Diet
WD dry and Hi-Tor eno-diet canned. She has been doing great on this
food as she has a sensitive stomach and has suffered for a long time
from diarrhea and loose stools. She was diagnosed with mild colitis and
cured, the vet told me to keep her on this food forever. Her coat is
good, she is in fine shape.

The other three dogs, two Papillons and the 1.5 year old Border Collie
are eating Nature's Recipe. I also give them all a spoonful of the eno
diet in the morning.

They all get brewers yeast and garlic powder in the morning. Nothing
else. I used too suplimnet with all sorts of things, but due to
monetary restraints I stopped buying all that extra stuff.

Sophie loves to eat the Border Collies stool and the BC loves Sophie's
stool. As vigilant as i am I sometimes miss a piece in the yard and
they go out and have a snack.

I recently bought Deter at my local pet supply place and that did not
stop anyone from eating anything. Only made me turn up my nose at the
stool as I shoveled it up morning and night, many, many times a day. I
have a doggie door, but i have been keeping it closed more often than
not. I clorox the yard every day, we recently had whipsorm problems.
There are three other dogs in the house upstairs, they eat pedigree and
no one of my dogs seems inclined to eat their stool.

Should I change food, add alfalfa, kelp? Help me please! I hate this!!
!!!!! Any suggestions to this distasteful problem would be greatly
appreciated.
--
Louise in Glendale, Queens NY
AFHA12A@Prodigy.com ******* Dragonfiredogs@Juno.com Bernpap@Prodigy.
net ******* Agiledragondogs@worldnet.att.net 2 Papillons: Travis
& Lola, one Berner: Sophie and Devin: the Blue Merle Border Collie devil
dog

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 19:48:48 -0800
From: Robin Camken
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: stool eating

Hello Lousie,

Here is an article by Dr Michael Richards, DVM, plus a number of other
web site references written by different Vets and a canine
behaviouralist, on Coprohagia (eating feces).

I hope this helps answer your questions.

Robin

--------------------------------------------------
Veterinary Information for Dog Owners

Dog Behavioral Problems by Michael Richards, DVM

from http://www.vetinfo.com/dbehave.html#coprophagia

Coprophagia

Coprohagia is the technical term for eating feces. This has been studied
in dogs by several people with no definitive answer for "why" being
found.

Nutritional deficiencies may be present in some dogs, but not very many.
This may be boredom related in many dogs. It has some "natural" roots in
the fact that dams often eat their pup's stools, apparently as a method
of hiding their presence from predators. Dogs will eat the stools of
other species, especially cats and rabbits, too. Dogs obviously do not
find the taste of feces objectionable or the behavior would be self
correcting. So I think of this as a natural behavior that upsets people.
Since dogs have to live with people, it is becomes an issue. There is a
product sold that is supposed to help with this habit -- Forbid. It
doesn't work in all cases (it might not even work in most cases).
Another alternative is putting meat tenderizer in the dog's food. This
works for some dogs. Walking a dog on a leash and working hard to keep
it from turning and eating its stool is helpful. It is sometimes
possible to distract the dog by running a short distance after the dog
has a bowel
movement or by taking a couple of rapid steps then telling the dog to
"sit" and giving it a treat. These behaviors may stay on as substitutes
to eating the stool. If you can keep the dog from eating stool for
a month or so it is sometimes long enough to break the habit. Picking up
stool to prevent its ingestion works in dogs that don't quickly eat
their own stool but do so when put in the yard alone. "Booby trapping" a
sample of stool by cutting it in half lengthwise, and putting some
Tobasco type sauce on the inside of the stool, then putting it back
together so that the dog is not aware of the hotsauce until it eats the
stool can help in some cases. This can be a hard habit to break.--

authored by Michael Richards, DVM and produced by TierCom, Inc.
Opinions expressed are those of Dr. Richards.

Copyright (c) 1997 - TierCom, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------
Other Web site on the Problem

http://www.zmall.com/pet/pet-faqs/ivc/1995/internet-vet.2.15.html
http://www.canines.com/copropha.html
http://www.pet-vet.com/11.htm#coprophagia
http://taz.eecs.uic.edu/~rsteven/BML_Files/copro.txt
----------------------------------------
Robin Camken
Trenton, ON
Canada
robin@blvl.igs.net

------------------------------

BERNER-L Digest 618

Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 14:41:07 -0500 (EST)
From: LLundh@aol.com
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
Subject: RE: Stool Eating

Louise:

We use to have this problem also. We have found that anise seed - about 1/4
- 1/2 teaspoon - sprinkled on the food seems to work. It may not work 100%
all of the time, but with our 3 guys (only 2 of the 3 were into this habit)
any decrease is great. A co-worker of my husband had the same problem and
said that after 3-4 days of anise seed, her dog has stopped. We buy it in
bulk packages at the grocery store. Hopefully this will work for you, too.

Lin Lundh
Bernell Kennels
Illinois

------------------------------

BERNER-L Digest 633

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:34:29 -0500
From: KARL & TARI HAFNER
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
Subject: poop eating

My vet suggested that one way to get poop eating to stop is to feed the
dog licorice. Just don't overdo it and feed it to them all the time, one
piece a day is plenty. Of course, that only stops them from eating their
own, not somebody else's unless they also eat licorice.

Works, doesn't it, Kathy!


Tari Hafner

Takari Kennels


Fulton, NY



------------------------------

Date: 18 Mar 97 12:44:33 EDT
From: Elizabeth L Hyatt

To: berner-l
Subject: Dry ice and poop eaters

Dry ice turns into CO2 gas. I suppose if it's in the cargo compartment of a
plane, the dogs could suffocate.

As for poop eaters, I heard you can use pepper spray to stop dogs from chewing
electrical cords, spray the pepper spray on a rag and rub it on, (do the
spraying outside). You could probably spray it on poop.

------------------------------

BERNER-L Digest 650


Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 21:06:47 -0500
From: Pecans
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Coprophagy

Eating stool. Have veterinarian give dog a check-up. Check for
internal parasites as something may be leaching matter out of the dog's
system. Dog might eat stool to get what diet lacks. Have blood work
done to determine if food being properly utilized by dog. Dogs who eat
feces are just as likely to eat premium diets as grocery store food.
Sometimes the medical problem is not found. Pups watch Mom do it as she
cleans their little messes and some pups grab a piece of stool while
playing "keep away" from their littermates. Is your dog bored?-Lots of
bored dogs do not eat their stools so this probably not the answer in
most cases. Does your dog eat cooked foods?-most dogs do so the answer
is not here. More to follow in a later post... Lisa Allen Material
from a 1988 issue of NORTHEAST CANINE COMPANION

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 20:47:52 -0000
From: "Ruth Reynolds"
To:
Subject: Coprophagy & enzymes...missing nutrients?

----------
> From: Pecans
> To: berner-l@prairienet.org
> Does your dog eat cooked foods?-most dogs do so the answer
> is not here. More to follow in a later post...

Lisa-

Not sure if this is a quoted article you reference here or your thought. I
think the former is true. In either case, I have found each dog processes
its diet via its unique physiological system, so I'd challenge the above
quoted generalization. Not all dogs, for instance, perform well on the
same commercial dog food. I have found every stool eater I've introduced
to Herbal Green (alfalfa, barley, gensing, yucca) to stop seeking stool
within a few days. This product also seems to meet the needs of grass
grazing dogs as well. My thoughts on this are that these dogs are missing
enzymes in their diets...it is no wonder when we consider how extruded
commercial foods are processed.

Ruth Reynolds RAR@phonl.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BERNER-L Digest 754

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:33:40 -0400
From: rickk@iglou.com (Rick Koehler)
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Berner who eats it's own BM's

We have had five Berners, and two of them love to eat feces.
I think the meat tenderizer think can work in some instances, but
not all. The best way I have found to keep my puppy and her aunt
from eating poop is simply to **keep it picked up**. I patrol the
yard twice daily (as my wife laughs at me--but she's not the one
who cuts the grass used by four healthy Berners!) and watch as I
let the dogs out.

To humans, coprophagia (sp?) is a disgusting habit, but it appears
to be instinctive in dogs to supplement their diets. I just make the
effort to keep the yard picked up every day. I love to get kisses
from my dogs, but I know where those Berner mouths have been.

Rick Koehler (with wife Cathy, Berner girls Tessa (12), Danetta (9),
Sasha (four), boy pup Trapper (five months) and that same old mean
cat!)

>
>Hi! we need help our 3 1/2 month old berner, Blaze, sometimes eats her bm's.
>Our vet told us to sprinkle meat tenderizer in her food that is really not
>working all that well. Any other suggestions would be helpful.(-: She also
>gets excited and bites.

>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:08:42 -0500
From: KARL & TARI HAFNER
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
Subject: poop eating

My vet recommends giving the poop eater licorice. Not too much though
because that causes other problems. Just give them a piece in the
morning or whenever. This helps with them eating their own, but not
others unless all get licorice. It's kinda hard to do that to all the
rabbits and deer and others who leave their little "treats" all over the
place. I haven't personally tried this but I have friends who have and
say it works.

Tari Hafner
Fulton, NY

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BERNER-L Digest 758

Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 11:42:04 +0100
From: Jim Copeland
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Poop eater responses

>Thank you for the suggestions on helping us with our 3 & 1/2 month old
puppy
>and her tastes for eating poop. This is not an every day thing it's only
>when I work and she is outside in her pen. As a rule we do pick up all her
>movements as quickly as possible...it's just the few times a week that I am
>at work in the afternoon after I feed her lunch.
>
>One of the reasons I ased for help was I was weary of adding meat
tenderizer
>in her food. I am now trying a spice called ANISE SEED that was recomended
>by a berner-l subscriber. Also someone recomended a little licorice...just
>so happens that this anise seed has a licorice-like flavor...we'll give it
a
>try and see what happens.
>
>Jim is a teacher and I work part time. We can't wait till school is out so
>we may head out more in our Motor Home! Right now we travel on weekends
>w/Blaze and she loves it as she gets alot (big time) attention where ever
we
>go. If you'd like you can visit our web page http://www.detailmagic.com
>there you can find out what we do (besides travel) with our Motor Home.
>
>Want to know if anyone can share how to house break our puppy? She does
not
>poop in the house or the motor home. When we are traveling she lets us
>know she has to go by sitting by the stairs of the Motor Home and barks at
>to door...but at home she pees where ever she pleases. We try to get her
>out often but sometimes it's just 10 minutes. She seems to be drinking
more
>water since this heat arrived, could that be part of the problem?
>
>I look forward to hearing from you and since we joined berner-l the fist
>thing I do (after I pour myself a cup of java) is read every word of the
>daily log.
>
>Kathy Copeland

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BERNER-L Digest 854

Subject: coprophagy with puppy , ideas?
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:39:14 +0100
From: "Kelly Phillips"
To: "berner list"

Hello everybody,

I posted on the list about 3 weeks ago with a new puppy problem and got all
the help I needed with Buck. I sincerely wish to thank everybody. We have
survived 3 weeks and Buck is wonderful. I can even sleep 7 hours in one
stretch. Trust me I couldn't be happier. I do love my sleep. If only I
could get Buck to enjoy it as much, sigh. :}

On a gloomier note, I am starting to worry about Buck's coprophagy. Big
word for poop eating. I know that there is no real rhyme or reason for it,
but it started the same day Buck found the litter box. Need I say more? :{
Also he will do it when he is hungry. Classic example, in the morning I
let him out of his crate and we go pee. Back in for food, 20 min. later we
go out to poop. Then, he tries to eat it. At first it seemed that he only
did it when he was hungry. So I kept food out all day, that and me walking
behind him with the shovel. I did that for 2 weeks. Trust me I was
vigilant. Next came the Tabasco hot sauce. He learned not to do it in
front of me. I quit that and returned to the scoop method. This week I
got a powder from the vet called "FOR-BID" it contains purified vegetable
protein fraction and sodium glutamate. The vet said to put over the dog's
food and it will make the feces taste bad. No guarantee. Good thing
because it isn't working.

He eats Pro Plan and doesn't know anything different. He is 11 weeks and
eats 3 cups a day. I don't add anything. He is a typical middle of the
road Bernese pup in temperament. I am out of ideas. I DO have the time to
scoop after him, but that is not a solution. The backyard is 100 feet by
40 feet with lots of trees so our walks are long. Needless to say he
doesn't need us following him anymore. One more fact, Buck won't do it
everytime, and not old feces.

I would appreciate any ideas. I know it is more upsetting to me than him
but I am not sure he will grow out of it.

Thanks in advance,
Kelly Phillips in Eugene,Oregon USA
kelento@gte.net ; kelento@aol.com
Buck the confused pup
Banzai the puppy wrestling cat
Daniel my understanding hubby

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BERNER-L Digest 856

Subject: Poopy eating Puppy !!!
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 17:47:08 -0700
From: Ann-Maree
To: berner-l@prairienet.org

Hi Jim and Kathy,

Now you may think that 'us Aussie's' may be a bit 'Outback' or 'She'll
be right mate' ... however ... I have a nearly 6mth old young lady ...
and I use the word 'lady' loosely given our chosen topic ... she's an
absolute darling .. no matter what Andrea has posted about her just
recently ... however .. she does tend to eat her own poop (particularly
fresh is good)! Very distressing as an owner and as you comment it is
more upsetting to us than to the dog.

My boy Oake used to delight in pussy poops .. a real entree as far as he
was concerned .. he never ate his own poop though ... he grew out of the
pussy poop delight stage. Doing some reading research into one of the
BMD UK books it had something about this sort of thing and put my mind
somewhat at rest in saying that they are 'getting something' out of the
poop that they 'need' ... yeah right!! As Oake grew out of the pussy
stage I didn't bother worrying or talking to Vets about it.

Now Vogue thinks the pussy treats are great as well (unless her 'Mum'
notices her hanging around the litter tray) .. so when she gives you a
big lick on the face at least 100,000 germs and thoughts rush across ...

I made a 'panic' call to Vogue's breeder (the lovely Kim Haddon in
Queensland) about this little 'habit' she was developing .. who said she
too had experienced this sort of thing with a bitch and she used to
heavily reprimand at the time of the 'crime' ... eventually the dog
'grew' out of it ...

I am living in hope that this too will be the case for Vogue. I might
add that Vogue has the most voracious appetite I have ever encountered ..
she is constantly nose to the ground scrounging for fragments, bugs,
morsels dropped by anybody ... you'd think I NEVER fed her ... she's
constantly looking for food .. I of course am trying to sensibly monitor
her weight gain during her growth period .. so to her I guess she's
supplementing ...

As I am fairly friendly with a few Vets around the place .. any I mention
Vogue's indelicate ways to don't raise an eyebrow and seem pretty
confident that 'this too will pass' ..

For the record, Vogue receives a varied 'natural' diet (raw meaty bones,
veg, fruit, grains etc the list is a big one) together with Bonnie as a
dry food .. so she gets plenty of different foods and variations ...

Her poop munching ways certainly appear not to have done her any harm
thus far and she's one of the biggest 6mth old bitches you want to lay
your eyes on!!!

I wish you all well!!!!

Ann-Maree, Oake & Vogue (alis Poop Scooper)
Aldate - South Australia

------------------------

Subject: Re: coprophagy with puppy , ideas?
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:28:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Annes4@aol.com
To: kelento@worldnet.att.net, berner-l@prairienet.org

I'm afraid my reply won't be of much use to you, but I have an almost 8 year
old Rottweiler who is still coprophagic. The only thing we have ever used
that put a temporary stop to the habit was to feed her a small amount of
black licorice (like Switzer's whips, etc.) after her two meals a day. It
works as long as we give it to her, but it has not broken the habit in that
she still eats her feces when we stop. So, I guess my answer is to buy
licorice by the case! We give her one "whip" after each meal; she weighs
about 85 - 90 lbs.

We also tried For-bid, and "NO!" (another food additive), following her
around to clean up immediately; watching and telling her No (which only
taught her to be sneaky); none of these treatments worked. She has been
doing this since she was a puppy; she eats a high quality natural dog food,
gets dog vitamins + Ester-C daily, is healthy with a nice shiny coat so I
doubt if she is lacking some nutrient (other than she would like to get at
least twice as much food as she does).

Try the licorice bit and see how it works for you.

Anne C., Flash (the Berner Boy) and Tyval, (the Rott'n one) TDX, HIC, CGC/TDI
Annes4@aol.com NE ILL

-----------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Poopy eating Puppy !!!
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 23:57:34 +0930
From: "Andrea Madeley"
To: "BMD Mailing List" ,

> I have a nearly 6mth old young lady ...
> and I use the word 'lady' loosely given our chosen topic ... she's an
> absolute darling .. no matter what Andrea has posted about her just
> recently ...

*** Lady?? The "Doc Martin Kid" !!!! TeeHeeTeeHee!

> however .. she does tend to eat her own poop (particularly
> fresh is good)! Very distressing as an owner and as you comment it is
> more upsetting to us than to the dog..

*** Well. Now I've heard everything! Vogue? a poop eater? For some
strange reason...I have no trouble picturing this at all.... :-))))

Ann-Maree...try some Tabasco on the poop. Just watch out for the back
fire! :-)))

(Rolling around on the floor laughing my head off!)

Andrea Madeley, Aari &
The Non-Poop eating but definitely pooping Mishka

Aldinga Beach - South Australia
Email: amadeley@dove.net.au
Home Page in working progress,

---------------------------------------

Subject: Must be a Fine Delicacy
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 17:43:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: KARBARU@aol.com
To: berner-l@prairienet.org

To Kelly et al,
I, too, have experienced copraphagy (sp?) in my dogs and yes it is
gross, but I have chosen to ignore it. Horses will eat poop, too, and it
appears to me (at least in the case of my own dogs) eating poop can be a
learned behavior, much like cribbing (chewing on wood) and windsucking is in
horses. If one horse in a stable starts cribbing, the others will start to
join in. When one of my dog starts eating poop, the rest think it's a good
idea and join in, all except my boy, Lucas, who is not a follower. Now, kitty
poop, on the other hand, must be a fine delicacy. When I take my dogs out to
the barn, the first thing they do, is search for it and savor it! Even,
Lucas, I'm sorry to say, can't help himself and refrain from this gourmet
delight. One time I was awakened during the night to a dog fight- kitty must
have just used the litter box and Lucas and son, Adam, had a tiff over who
was going to get the treat. As someone said, the fresher the better!
I don't think this behavior is so unnatural. After all, it is very
instinctive for a bitch to clean up after her pups in the first few weeks of
life (thank goodness for small favors). And I don't think it's an indication
of a nutritional inadequacy either.
I don't know if anyone has suggested this one, but you can try putting
Adolph's Meat Tenderizer on their food, my vet suggested that; although I
haven't tried it. What I do is to try and clean up daily after my dogs, and,
oh well, if they sneak in a taste now and then, no kisses from Mom (at least
for a day).
Karen in Parker, Co.
Karbaru@aol.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BERNER-L Digest 1090

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:23:29 +0900
From: fude takayoshi
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: strange eating habits

Hi,

Would like to ask if anyone can explain the cause of the strange eating
habits,
like Berners eating their own excrements.
I never had a problem like this personally with my four Berners,
yet, apparently this issue has been greatly concerned and discussed
very often by the many members of the Japanese BMD Mailing List.
Some of the owners complain that their Berners eat their excrements
and even someone else's. Basically young ones tend to display that
kind of habit, but some old ones do it also.

Any suggestion as to how to make them stop this weird habit?

Thanks always.

Fude Takayoshi
Tokyo

---------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:17:52 +1030
From: "Andrea Madeley"
To: "BMD Mailing List" ,
Subject: Re: strange eating habits

> Would like to ask if anyone can explain the cause of the strange eating
> habits, like Berners eating their own excrements.

There is nothing to unusual about this ~ dogs do this to gain important
nutrients that may be deficient in their diet. I hear about it often in
dogs fed commercial preparations.

Poop from other animals (and even their own) is very high in Essential
Fatty Acids and various other microbes. Dr. Billinghurst at his seminar
quoted "A *Smart* dog eats feces"...unquote.

I would suggest more raw foods rich in Essential Fatty Acids added to the
diet (raw chicken meat/fat and pork fat...bones too are good sources) but
they must be raw.

Why is what I am typing in this reply unreadable...this is weird! :-)

Andrea Madeley, Aari & Mischka
Aldinga Beach - South Australia
Email: amadeley@dove.net.au
Home Page STILL under working progress.....


---------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:14:49 -0600
From: "Anita"
To:
Subject: Re: strange eating habits

Fude asked about the "strange eating habits" of Berners. Well, my crew has
certainly developed a flair for it. Actually, it started with my girl and
both boys (including el-muttso, who has never eaten his own poop in his
previous 15 years) have decided to copy her. . . .

I have tried EVERYTHING. It's particularly hard to clean up right after at
night in the winter. Mae has taken to waiting until I turn my back or can't
see her to do her thing. . . .

Anyway, I have decided that I'm just looking at this all wrong. So now, I
catch her (them) when I can. Otherwise, I figure I should just have a more
positive attitude -- i.e., I have trained my dogs to clean up after
themselves.

Now, if I could just train them to run the vacuum cleaner. . . .

Anita Schrodt
in Wichita KS with Mae, Satchmo, and Othello, world's best yard
cleaner-uppers.
AJSchrodt@worldnet.att.net

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BERNER-L Digest 1096

Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 18:10:21 -0500
From: "julie fontaine"
To:
Subject: Disgusting habit


I need HELP!!!

My berner has a very disgusting habit of eating its stools. I have =
tried every product or trick to get him off his habit but nothing =
works.... even a very HOT HOT mixture of pimentos ( he thinks it tastes =
even better...). I hope someone can help me with this because even my =
younger dog is starting to do it.

Thank you,

Julie

---------------------------------


Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 19:35:01 -0800
From: "Ruth Reynolds"
To:
Subject: Re: Disgusting habit

Julie said:I need HELP!!! My berner has a very disgusting habit of
eating its stools. I have tried every product or trick to get him
off his habit but nothing works.... even a very HOT HOT mixture of
pimentos ( he thinks it tastes even better...). I hope someone can
help me with this because even my younger dog is starting to do it.

***It has been my experience with my own dogs and those of others
as well that dogs who eat canine feces seem to respond well to
introduction of either chelated multi minerals or organic mineral
in the form of dehydrated grasses.
Depending on the dog's diet and other health factors, one might be
better indicated than the other.

We tend to often try to STOP behaviors. Most behaviors have a
cause. In the case of stool eating it may be nutritional
deficienty. I am as prone as anyone else to find the immediate
"fix". In my experience however, "fixing" the problem without
underrstanding and addressing the cause of it, rarely brings about
permanent changes in undesired behavior.

If you would like to learn more about this approach, please feel
free to contact me.

Ruth Reynolds RAR@PHONL.com

-----------------------------------


Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:04:23 +1030
From: "Andrea Madeley"
To: "BMD Mailing List" ,
"julie fontaine"
Subject: Re: Disgusting habit

My berner has a very disgusting habit of eating its stools. I have tried
every product or trick to get him off his habit but nothing works.... even
a very HOT HOT mixture of pimentos ( he thinks it tastes even better...). I
hope someone can help me with this because even my younger dog is starting
to do it.

Julie,

It's only disgusting to us because we're not dogs. This habit is not only
normal for dogs but infact quite necessary at times.

If you can get passed the odour and thought of poop - you may also find
that there is a lot of essential nutrients packed in that there pile of
pooh! The most useful to dogs are the Essential Fatty Acids and other
microbes. Often we see this habit form in dogs are going through a phase
of deficiencies in these much needed nutrients...enzymes being ripe and
very helpful to a dogs system...

And...last but not least - I guess to them...it tastes good!

No kisses though...well..not on the lips OK?

Andrea Madeley, Aari & Mischka
Aldinga Beach - South Australia
Email: amadeley@dove.net.au
Home Page STILL under working progress.....

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BERNER-L Digest 1128

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 13:22:57 -0500
From: Kathy & Jim Copeland
To: berner-l
Subject: Study on coprophagia, a.k.a. poop-eating
Mime-version: 1.0

Someone on another list posted this web site:

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/pets/study.htm

Where Erik Hofmeister at Washington State University's vet school is
conducting a study on coprophagia, a.k.a. poop-eating. Some interesting
data can be found there and Erik would like to hear from people with dogs of
all breeds and ages who do and who do not eat their own poop, other dogs'
poop, and other animals' poop. He welcomes feedback/comments and if you'd
like to be a part of this study you can get him to send you a survey.


Kathy & Jim Copeland -- Clinton, MA
Blue Eyed "BLAZE" (BMD) One year old with one blue eye
e-mail: kathy@detailmagic.com -- voice: 1-800-560-8207
Web page: http://www.detailmagic.com (A picture of *Blaze* is there)
Pet Care Products: http://www.detailmagic.com/offsiteframe.html

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BERNER-L Digest 1132

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 23:10:52 -0600
From: "Anita"
To:
Subject: poop eating and clickers

Different subjects, before anyone gets excited. . . .

On the former, I haven't tried this yet, but have read posts from a guy who
finally found something his dog absolutely couldn't stand when he sprinkled
it on the stuff -- spearmint (apparently, the pure spearmint
breath-freshening spray).

Clickers -- there was a request for info on the clicker mail lists. There
are two, clicktrain and click-l. I would recommend that anyone who gets into
these get the digest form -- the traffic is really heavy. Clicktrain, even
as a digest (albeit a digest that moves with 5-6 posts in each) routinely
ships out 4 or more digest a day.

here are signup instructions:

TO SUBSCRIBE TO CLICK-L:
send message to:
majordomo@ListService.net

and in BODY of message put
subscribe click-l-digest your e-mail address

TO SUBSCRIBE TO CLICKTRAIN
send message to:
Majordomo@gcstation.net

and in body of message put:
subscribe clicktrain-digest your e-mail address

and about clicking and not having a clicker -- for one thing, the clicker is
for training and occasional refreshing, but the goal is to achieve a
behavior and "retire" the clicker on that behavior. You can compensate,
when caught clicker-less, with a "yes!" or cluck-cluck sound or whatever
other positive reinforcement you can come up with. My guys get "good girl"
or "good boy" or just "good" with or without the clicker. The clicker is
more precise for training, particularly if you tackle something that needs
to be reinforced step by step.

I haven't really done anything complicated, but on "go back" (teaching the
dog to walk backwards, which is good for their legs, at least I assume it
is) Satchmo was really reluctant. I literally had to click him for leaning
back, and then step by step. He does it now willingly, with no clicker.
(Once he got the hang of it, which took some doing, he decided it was fun.)

Anita Schrodt
in Wichita KS etc. etc.
AJSchrodt@worldnet.att.net

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BERNER-L Digest 1135


Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 19:28:58 -0800
From: "Kathryn Butterfield-Davis"
To:
Subject: Re: poop eating

Regarding things to put on dog poop to make it disgusting to a poop
snacker--You might try Listerine
Mouthwash straight--the old, nasty-tasking yellow formula. I put it in a
spray bottle with a little water & squirt it in a dog's mouth every time he
barks (ie in crate & has been told "quiet!"). I use this when my dogs are
young 10-12wks. It has been the best training against excessive barking &
the dogs have fresh breath! I put the sprayer on straight stream & spray
from only a foot away so I can hit them in their mouth (not their eyes).
After the pup has been 'shot' once or twice, all I have to do is mist it in
the air even a couple of feet away. Even the older dogs snort to clear
their nostrils of the yucky smell. I'm out of Listrine, or I would try it
on my poop eaters tomorrow & tell you personally how it works. It's on my
grocery list!

Kathy
Windraider Retrievers
Flat Coats, Labradors, a spoiled rotten Amer. Eskimo &
California a bouncing baby Berner boy

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BERNER-L Digest 1234


Date: Thu, 7 May 98 16:22:48 EDT
From: dss@ludwig.micro.lucent.com (538849100-Dean S. Scott)
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: poop eaters

Someone wrote:
Another question... I have tried and tried to get Heidi to stop eating my
other dogs Poop. ...I have tried Anise Seed in their food, cayenne pepper
on the "steak" itself and meat tenderizer in their food. Does anyone have
any suggestions for a really persistant Berner?

Well I tried a new deterrent (or should I say: de terd ain't)
"Crushed pineapple" and it worked for us. Put a table spoonful in their
food. For some reason they do not like the taste of a fruit cocktail stool.

Dean Scott
Kutztown, Pa.

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BERNER-L Digest 1555


Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:57:02 -0500
From: JAMES STORIE (storiebook.kennels@sympatico.ca)
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Disgusting habits

Hello!
Wondering if any of you out in Berner land could forward some
suggestions in attempts to eliminate the problem of eating feces. Four
out of our five dogs engage in this habit!! (two of them regularly). I
hate to say it, but it was our Berner boy (age 2) that started it all.
We have tried switching foods, thinking something was lacking. As well
we have tried recommendations from our vet, etc....nothing seems to
really work. Their area (a large fenced in yard) is scooped twice daily
so its not easily accessible. Any one out there with this problem??

Heather

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BERNER-L Digest 1556

From: "Raymond Burgett" (eaglecap@oregontrail.net)
To: "Berner L" (berner-l@prairienet.org), (storiebook.kennels@sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re:Disgusting Habits
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:55:43 -0800

The eating of feces is not just a dog thing. Horses also do it. I do not
know of a cure but will keep a close eye on the L to see if someone has a
sure fire cure.
We did find one use for the dog feces,drop some of it in the holes they
love to dig and they will not touch that hole agin, ( Hey lets dig next to
it)
It does seem as though they outgrow that disgusting habit.

Eagle Cap Bernese Ray & Pat Burgett
Kenai,Talee,Lexi,Bonny,& Geraldine( Mini Dasch)
eaglecap@oregontrail.net

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BERNER-L Digest 1557

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:34:04 -0500
From: THOMAS SLIDER (jandcslider@blueridge.net)
To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List (berner-l@prairienet.org)
Subject: RE: Disgusting Habits!!!!!!!

I also have this problem of feces-eating by my 3yr old Berner female.
Noticed that she does this more often before, during, and after her
heat. Cannot break her as of yet. My 10yr old Golden female is just now
trying the same habit. Both of my male Berners have not shown any
interest in this endeavour....that goodness. I, too, pick up the 'poop'
every AM & PM and afternoons...my Golden is my "mine-finder", especially
now with all the leaves out there. Did try Deter but would have to give
to all dogs and it did cause diarrhea with one of my males. Tried hot
pepper, fireplace ashes, cayenne pepper etc but if I do that, I might as
well pick it up!
Will keep posted for suggestions.
Carol, North Carolina

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: BrnersinCA@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:23:23 EST
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Disgusting Habits!!!!!!!

I posted this privately, but perhaps, seeing how many people have this problem
with their pooches, I decided to post to all...

This solution is NOT vet recommended, and I have no guarentees it will work
for your dog, but it worked for mine... so I thought I would share...

I read in a book called "101 things your dog wants you to know" that sometimes
feeding enzyme-rich foods like grapefruit, pumpkin and papaya because
sometimes the dog is lacking in a digestive enzyme that leaves too much of the
food nutirents passing through.

I started to feed Maddy two papaya enzyme tablets a day, and the poop-eating
stopped. You can get these at any health food store and Maddy LOVES them!

She has not eaten any fecal matter for MONTHS, but I keep them on hand, just
in case.

Good luck...
Samantha & Madison

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:37:12 -0500
From: Chris & Marjorie Cottle (CJCOTTLE@ids.net)
To: jandcslider@blueridge.net
CC: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List (berner-l@prairienet.org)
Subject: Re: Disgusting Habits!!!!!!!

My puppy started the poop eating habit after she had a bout of diareha
at about 3mos old. Now it has become a habit and also a competition.
She'll poop in a circle, eating with one end while pooping at the other
to prevent MEfrom getting it first!!!! Finally, now that she is 14
months old I have decided to try to ignore it and lo and behold, most of
the time she won't eat it , but let her see me heading toward it and
she's there in a flash cleaning up those morsels before I can have the
pleasure!!

Marjorie and her self cleaning puppy, Addie( at least if Mom forgets the
plastic bag, I can always clean up after myself!)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:41:40 -0500
From: Molly Bass (mcb7k@virginia.edu)
To: BrnersinCA@aol.com
CC: berner-l (berner-l@prairienet.org)
Subject: Re: Disgusting Habits!!!!!!!

This solution is NOT vet recommended, and I have no guarentees it will work for
your dog, but it worked for mine... so I thought I would share...

Any suggestions for horse poop and kitty poop?! I am living on a farm while our
house is being built and my guys can't get enough of the stuff - yuk! I've grown
up with horses and dogs and we never had this problem with our other dogs or the
barn dogs. I am getting sick of kitty poop breath (I can handle the horse poop
breath a little better and it goes away faster.)

Molly, Bogen, Bianca, and Raven - Why don't you want kissies mom?
Charlottesville, VA

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:02:46 -0600
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
From: Ian and Debbie McKinley (dimck@horizon.hit.net)
Subject: RE: Disgusting Habits!!!!!!!

Gretchen is 6 so I doubt that she will out grow feces eating. Yes we try to
keep the yard picked up but some days life gets ahead of you. And with two
other poop machines in the yard with her, well fresh is alwys better ,
isn't it.

So what it boils down to at our house is this. Gretchen is never left
unsupervised in the yard. Usually a casual' Gretchen I'm watching you' is
all that is needed to stop her BEFORE she actually tries to grab some. And
when she knows you are watching it is very definite that she is looking but
trying not to look like she is looking. There are days that she is
determined to get some anyway. We have one of those sonic hand held
beepers(the blue one from R.C Steele) Gretchen may ignore many things when
she wants something bad enough, but one blast on the sonic unit will stop
her (and since it makes her a little edgy , she will not try again for a
week or more) A good bonus is that often times now we don't actually have
to push the button, just picking up the unit and saying her name will get
an instant, 'I'm snot doing anything ' response.
Sometimes her episode of 'the gulps' can be tied into an opps when one of
us was not fast enough and she got ahold of poop within the last two days.
At night when she goes out we keep a flashlight trained on her (she gets
indignant about it sometimes.
Another thing we have to be on the look out when we go on walks for other
dogs poop (I feel 'safer' about her getting our dogs poops than someone elses)

We don't beat ouselves up if she gets some, but do go wash her mouth out,
and tell her to keep her breath to herself for a while :)

Debbie and Ian McKinley dimck@horizon.hit.net
web pages: http://www.iscn.com/people/harvey.html
http://www.hit.net/~dimck/parades.htm from Kansas, the sunflower
state. "I know foot and paw. But what the heck is gee and haw?"-Debbie
McKinley

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BERNER-L Digest 1558

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 02:57:17 -0500
From: Marthe Millas =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9n=E9cal?= (m.senecal@videotron.ca)
Subject: RE:Discusting Habits!!!
To: Berner-L (berner-l@prairienet.org)

Hi all,

Samantha writes:
«sometimes the dog is lacking in a digestive enzyme that leaves too much
of the
food nutirents passing through.»
I had a golden retreiver for 13 years, she started fece eating around 10
years of age, it took us a while to notice it because she was not doing
it every time. Finaly a check up at the vet found a thyroid problem, and
when we told him about the poop eating he said it could be related
because of a lack of something or other in her system. The advice he
gave us was 1.-Put tobasco sauce on it, usualy the dog will not go back(
yuk!) 2.- Supervise the dog when they go out and to pick it up
immediatly.
She took the thyroid pills and got rid of the habit pretty quick. Has
anybody else ever heard of a thyroid problem related to poop eating ? I
would try the enzymes , sounds like a good idea, and it is a natural
supplement.

Martha , Mishka and Nanook
Pincourt, Quebec
http://www.angelfire.com/ms/bernese/index.html

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BERNER-L Digest 1559

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 98 22:42:05 EST
From: dss@ludwig.micro.lucent.com (538849100-Dean S. Scott)
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Disgusting Habits !!!!

Try adding a 1/2 cup of crushed pineapple to your poop eaters food.
Someone told us to try pumpkin, but it didn't work. The pineapple
did work for us.

Dean Scott

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BERNER-L Digest 1560

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:29:28 -0600
From: Robin Camken (rcamken@escape.ca)
To: berner-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Disgusting Habits !!!!

Here are some sites that offer various theories on what causes
Coprophagia (poop eating) in canines and suggestions on how to
prevent/cure it.

WHY DOES MY DOG EAT FECES?
http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/ceps/petcolumns/coproph.htm

Owner Documentation of Coprophagia in the Canine
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/pets/study.htm

COPROPHAGIA
http://www.erinet.com/ghost/coprophagia.htm

Coprophagia(eating feces)
http://www.perfectpaws.com/copro.html

The consensus appears to be that the only guaranteed solution is to
pickup immediately after your dog, thereby removing the source of the
problem. This seems logical to me and sure beats injecting the feces
with hot sauce through a hypodermic needle (this was actually suggested
as solution).

Robin
|||||||||~
Robin Camken
Winnipeg, MB, Canada
E-mail (rcamken@escape.ca)
Home Page = http://www.escape.ca/~rcamken/

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BERNER-L Digest 1562

From: "Ruth Reynolds " (RAR@phonl.com)
To: "Berner-L" (Berner-l@prairienet.org)
Subject: response to Dean re: nutrit. deficiency and feces scrounging
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:07:39 -0800

Dean-

It would be my guess that the enzymes in pineapple have put your dogs back on
track where their own bodies can resume adequate production of the enzymes
they need.

I like it when people can civily disagree.

Thanks for your post.

Ruth Reynolds

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:58:35 +1030
From: Ann-Maree (creat_kit@adelaide.on.net)
Subject: Re: Stools & Grass Eating?
To: Berner L (berner-L@prairienet.org)


If this BARF diet is as good as everyone says,does it keep the dogs from
eating there S H ? T. (

Ray & Pat:

Excellent question! I was wondering the same thing....so what is the
consensus? Any BARF'ers suffering from stool/grass eating?


*** Hi .. I actually did answer an email on this privately yesterday .. I
thought the List would 'groan' if I popped up again so soon on the dreaded
BARF ...

To answer this question from my perspective ... my 2 BMD's - male/female -
nearly 3yrs/21mths ... respectively.

Oaky the boy .. ate an occasional pussy poop as a pup .. and yes I did avoid
those puppy kisses ... however he has never eaten his own or any other's
stools .. but hey it's great to sniff others along our walks just to
'identify' who's gone before him.

Vogue .. my greedy little piglet ... whilst still scoffing pussy poops today
.... has on 2 occasions when she was quite young (that I'm aware of and
she's at work with me all the time) chowed down on her own .... (yes I know
gross topic so early in the morning, well for this end of the world anyway).
I upped her vegetable matter for the week, more garlic, and 'Missing Link'
... some fruits, grains .....

To date ... she's not bothered with doggie doohs.

As for grass ... both mine will have a graze on our walks even on top of all
the veg pulp they get during a week. Sometimes Vogue will vomit straight
after (a clean out) ... and then spring along like nothing happened ...
Oaky on the other hand has his grass with no such side show .... I've even
cropped grass and put thru their meals at times.

Oaky particularly likes to have some grass out of the backyard after his
main meal if it contains meat chunks (even with the greens, carrots,
capsicum, garlic mashed thru) ..... Oaky has had a fit of 'gulping' too
(fly snapping I think you refer to it as) (which scared the hell out of me)
.... where he rampantly goes for the grass. He eats his meat too quickly at
times which I believe takes in air and brings on this gulping ...

Now when I leave lots of meat on a bone ... we don't have that situation
'cause he has to take longer and rips it rather than eating chunks ....
which is better for him ....

If I see this gulping happening I give him a bowl of milk or some straight
flaxseed oil in his bowl to lap ....

Vogue is a strong bitch and Oaky is what I'd call a soft dog (gorgeous
though .. of course) ... Vogue has never had gulping .. no matter what I
feed or don't. In my heart I figure she's the more robust one.

So a tad long-winded but you get the general drift ....

'Thunder from Down Under'
Ann-Maree, Oaky & Vogue
ALDGATE - SOUTH AUSTRALIA
creat_kit@adelaide.on.net

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BERNER-L Digest 1563


Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:56:11 -0800
To: " Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List" (berner-l@prairienet.org)
From: Robin Welch (turdus@redshift.com)
Subject: Re: Eating Feces

I think they are nutrient seeking when they do this and need a vitamin and
mineral supplement. Especially minerals.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kathryn Butterfield-Davis" (kb-davis@tminet.com)
To: (Berner-l@prairienet.org)
Subject: Re: Stools & Grass Eating?
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:08:38 -0800

Ann-Maree mentioned increasing veggies when her dogs started stool eating &
that triggered my memory about what a friend told me.

A long-time Lab breeder told me that putting a couple of tsps. of spinach--a
TBSP for Berners in with the dogs' food twice a day (canned works fine) will
stop them from eating each others stools. She swears it works. After a
couple of weeks, stop the spinach & *usually* the behavior doesn't return.

I was told that the Navajo word for 'dog' means eater of feces! I think
there are a number of reasons for coprophagy (sp?). One is that if our dogs
were in the wild, the den area would have to be kept clean so as not to draw
predators. One of my pups would clean up after her brothers & sisters when
they were on newspaper in the kitchen, but once they went outside & also
went to their homes, she quit & never did it again.
Another reason that I've observed is a kind of honoring of the top dog in
the pack. I had a Lab, Polly, that all the other dogs groomed as she layed
around (Cleopatra?). The dogs who would eat feces would only eat hers.

The third reason is that the feces probably still has the smell of 'food' to
some dogs.

Whatever the reason, YECH!!! Where's that spinach???!!

Kathy kb-davis@tminet.com
Windraider Retrievers
Flat Coats, Labradors, a BIG, bouncing Berner boy &
California a spoiled rotten Amer. Eskimo


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:14:31 -0600
From: Robin Camken (rcamken@escape.ca)
To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List (berner-l@prairienet.org)
Subject: Re: Eating Feces

From WHY DOES MY DOG EAT FECES?
By Theresa A. Fuess, Ph.D. University of Illinois College of Veterinary
Medicine
http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/ceps/petcolumns/coproph.htm

In the past it was believed that feces eating, also known as
coprophagia, was caused by either poor diet or poor health. However,
this theory is not supported by current research. "Behavioral research
has discounted the idea that it is a dietary deficiency or a pancreatic
enzyme deficiency," says Dr. Jo Ann Eurell, a veterinarian and animal
behavior specialist at the University of Illinois College of Veterinary
Medicine. "Dogs are historically scavengers, and this is believedto be a
scavenger behavior".

--------------------

Robin Camken
Winnipeg, MB, Canada
E-mail (rcamken@escape.ca)
Home Page = http://www.escape.ca/~rcamken/

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BERNER-L Digest 1565

From: "Doug Smith" (rokipynes@turbont.net)
To: "berner-l" (berner-l@prairienet.org)
Subject: re:grass/stooll eating
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:51:46 -0500

Our senior vet at the clinic where we take our animals has an interesting
theory about grass eating. He feels that is an evolutionary trait of ancient
dogs. He feels that those dogs who ate grass tended to survive better. a
Therefore these were the ones who passed along there genes by being the ones
who were healthiest and bred the most. He explains that as those of us who
have grass eaters have seen that the grass is not digested. It instead
travels through the gut and leaves the dog as a mass of material with many
edges exposed. His theory is that the rough edges of the grass clump scraped
worms from the intestinal walls causing them to be expelled leaving a
healthier dog. He also says not to worry about the animals eating grass
unless you are using any type of lawn treatment. Our 3 dogs and the cat all
graze on grass and it seems to do them no harm ( sometimes we wonder if they
don't have sheep genes hidden in them).

Blessed with 3 big old goofy dogs

Doug Smith
Enfield,NH

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BERNER-L Digest 1566


Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:20:49 +0000
From: Jenise Klos (fnjmk@aurora.alaska.edu)
To: turdus@redshift.com
CC: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List (berner-l@prairienet.org)
Subject: Re: Eating Feces

Then what would explain that my dog will only eat frozen "poopsicles?"
He never touched the stuff all summer and I thought he had outgrown this
disgusting habit. We are now deep into winter and I see him digging for
the oldest, most frozen pieces he can find that I missed when cleaning
the yard. I have not changed his diet.
Jenise Klos, North Pole, Alaska

Robin Welch wrote:

I think they are nutrient seeking when they do this and need a vitamin and
mineral supplement. Especially minerals.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BERNER-L Digest 1745

From: "Raymond Burgett" (eaglecap@oregontrail.net)
To: "Berner L" (berner-l@prairienet.org)
Subject: Stool eating
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:48:45 -0800

Over the 14 years we have raised the Mountain Dogs and others before them we
have tried
every thing one could think of to stop this disgusting habit. The best thing
that works is to clean the yard a minimum of two times a day.When we have
more than 3 dogs here which is most of the time we pick up 3 times a day.
Soooooooo when the cannot find any of their own they head for the horse
manure pile.

Eagle Cap Bernese Ray & Pat Burgett
Kenai,Lexi,Bonny,& Geraldine( Mini Dasch) & Guest from Kielerstar Kennels
eaglecap@oregontrail.net -- N.E.Oregon Eli & Allegra
http://www.oregontrail.net/~eaglecap

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BERNER-L Digest 1748

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:04:58 -0800
From: Sara Anne Furrer (sfurrer@pacbell.net)
To: "berner-l@prairienet.org" (berner-l@prairienet.org)
Subject: stool eating

we all know that the dog habit of stool eating is gross, but they are
dogs and they eat a lot of wierd things when they can but I've never
heard whether or not it can be dangerous or unhealthy. Any knowledge
out there on this? Sara & Blackjack "if its a deer and you're not
looking...."

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrea Madeley" (amadeley@dove.net.au)
To: (jenpopp@home.com),
"Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List" (berner-l@prairienet.org)
Subject: Re: stool eating
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:34:35 +1030

I don't know why I feel this way but I think horse manure is not as
discusting (sp?) as dog poop! Actually, I think if I was a dog I'd
nibble some myself. (sick, eh??)

Horse manure is very good food for a dog. If they want some, don't deny
it.

If dogs eat their own faeces it could well be highlighting a deficiency -
OR - a yummy habit formed due to boredom...OR the dog is just plain hungry
and not satisfied on it's current diet.

Either way - it's disgusting to humans....not dogs.

Andrea Madeley, Aari & Mischka
Aldinga Beach - South Australia
Email: amadeley@dove.net.au

http://dove.mtx.net.au/~amadeley/index.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrea Madeley" (amadeley@dove.net.au)
To: "BERNER-L" (berner-l@prairienet.org), (sfurrer@pacbell.net)
Subject: Re: stool eating
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:31:30 +1030

dogs and they eat a lot of wierd things when they can but I've never
heard whether or not it can be dangerous or unhealthy. Any knowledge
out there on this?

For a dog it's a food source high in many, many nutrients - the fatty
acids, enzymes, vitamins and minerals etc. may well be something a dog on a
commercial diet is looking for.

Andrea Madeley, Aari & Mischka
Aldinga Beach - South Australia
Email: amadeley@dove.net.au

http://dove.mtx.net.au/~amadeley/index.html

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BERNER-L Digest 1750


From: Brnrmom@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:40:42 EST
To: amadeley@dove.net.au
Cc: Berner-L@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: stool eating

In a message dated 2/24/99 4:44:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
amadeley@dove.net.au writes:

(( or a dog it's a food source high in many, many nutrients - the fatty
acids, enzymes, vitamins and minerals etc. may well be something a dog on a
commercial diet is looking for.
))

Or else perhaps it is just tasty!
MMMMmmmmmmm.....yuck!

Vilma
Akron, OH

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bruce Dennis (brdennis@ivic.net)
To: "Berner Mailing List (E-mail)" (berner-l@prairienet.org)
Subject: Re: Stool Eating
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:44:28 -0800

I received a catalog called "Doctors Foster and Smith", and one product
claims to stop stool eating. It is called Dis-Taste and it is supposedly
contains vegetable extracts that make a dog's stool unpalatable to even the
most habitual stool eater. I don't know if it works - sounds interesting.
Their website is http://www.drsfostersmith.com. This product is only for
dogs, unfortunately my dog only enjoys that of the cat. Maybe someone else
out there has tried this products.

Bruce Dennis

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BERNER-L Digest 2019

From: "Louise Wetzel"
To: "Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List"
Subject: poop eating
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:38:19 -0700

Hi folks,

Sophie is going to be 9 in September and she still eats poop. Not her own
anymore, just the Border Collie's. I have tried everything and nothing
works, except cleaning up after her right away. Out of sight, out of mind.
I never let her out without checking the yard first for landmines, of course
occasionally I am not as vigilant as I could be and she gets to scarf up a
treat.

It might have something to do with the fact that she is on a very bland
food, Science Diet WD, for her sensitive stomach and colitis. Perhaps she
is looking for more proteins in her diet. Too bad, rather have that, ppop
eating, than shooting diarrhea and vomiting.

Louise in Glendale, Queens, NY
dragonfiredogs@worldnet.att.net
a Bernese, a Border Collie and two Papillons
http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Farm/5311/dragon.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kim Coleman"
To: "Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List"
Subject: RE: poop eating
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 07:16:16 -0400

Often times a pup will go through a poop eating stage that they will grow
out of. I don't worry too much here. But my 3 yr old Boxer never grew out
of this and it became apparent that his poop as well as grass eating habits
were a bit neurotic.

With the advice from the Berner-L, I began him on "Dynamite's Herbal Green",
a teaspoon or two daily and this behavior ceased, completely. I don't think
Max is too crazy about the flavor being added to his kibble but he stills
scarf it all down rather than let Callihan clean his bowl.

Max is still neurotic but I believe the AKC standard allows for it in the
Boxer breed standard!

Kim Coleman
Left Coast, USA
http://www.suzukme.com
"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it"

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BERNER-L Digest 2240

Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 20:08:30 -0500
From: Marthe Millas Senecal
Subject: Re: poo snacks
To: Graeme McRanor <"mcranors@netcom.ca> berner-l@prairienet.org

Hi there,
We have an excellent article on coprophagia on the BMDCQ website, check it
out.
http://www.geocities.com/HEARTLAND/POINTE/5573/coprophagia.html
Hope this helps.
Martha


Québec, Canada
Club Québécois du Bouvier Bernois (CQBB)
Bernese Mountain Dog Club of Quebec(BMDCQ)
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/5573/CQBB.html

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Graeme McRanor
À : berner-l@prairienet.org
Date : 5 décembre, 1999 23:52
Objet : poo snacks


Occassionally my 14 month old Berner will stumble upon another dog's feces
and decides that he needs a snack. I've read before that this may be due to
an enzyme he is lacking etc.
He only does it every so often but I am constantly monitoring him on
walks...my question, I read on the list a while back about adding something
into his food to stop this behavior, but I don't remember what it was and I
can't find the old posting. Any ideas???

Graeme McRanor
RDTV, Ryerson Polytechnic University
Toronto, Canada

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


BERNER-L Digest 2890

Subject: eating poop
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:46:40 -0700
From: "Leonard Bergstein"
To: "Bernese Mountain Dog"

Help!
Our 4 month old BMD Annie seems to be snacking on poop! We have three dogs,
and pick up 2-3 times a day, however we occasionally don't find anything.
The other day I observed Annie eating the waste, and tried to correct her,
but she seems to be doing this whenever she has the chance.
Any suggestions or advice? Our other berner Cosmo never did anything like
that.
Len, Cosmo, K.C. & Annie

---------------------

Subject: Re: eating poop
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:08:29 -0800
From: "Ruth Reynolds"
To:
CC: "Berner-L"

>>Help! Our 4 month old BMD Annie seems to be snacking on poop!

***Hi Len,

**Many people who find themselve in your shoes want simply for this behavior
to stop. I don't know for sure what specifically will stop YOUR dog's stool
eating behavior but I can share what my experience has been with other dogs
who did this.

***I suspect that your Annie is simply RECYCLING!!!! Stool eating behavior,
or coprophagy, is an indication to me that my own dogs have not gotten all
the "goodie" from their food on the first round through the digestive
system. Why would that be? Why would they not utilize the nutrients in the
food presented? There are a number of reasons including that some sources
of a particular nutrient may not be so easily digested by a particular
animal. In a specific animal's diet, if the main source of a specific amino
acid is not highly useable by THAT particular dog, the step in the digestion
and absorption process facilitated by that amino acid will be lacking in its
efficiency. This can result in a significant portion of the nutrients in a
diet being excreted rather than absorbed into the bloodstream where they
feed the body. The dog eats its digested food again in an attempt to
retrieve the digestive enzymes it is missing.

So....what can you do to discern if THIS is why your dog is eating dog
feces? Many recommend supplementing the diet with digestive enzymes. If
you choose to do this, go very slow as you add them so as not to cause a
gastric disturbance and subsequent intestinal inflammation which may result
in diarrhea. The suggestions of adding pineapple (bromelain), Adolf Meat
Tenderizer (numerous enzymes used to tenderize meat) or products marketed
specifically for dogs with multiple digestive enzymes, have all been made
here in the past and probably all have worked to some extent for many dogs.

What I like to use is more enzymes in the form of "green vegetation" which
seems also to be what many dogs who eat feces also crave as they also seek
grass to eat. I use a product from Dynamite Marketing called Herbal Green.
I have found it to be very mild in effects, easy for the dogs to accept in
their food if they indeed need it, and overall a good choice for this
application. If you'd like more info about my and others' experiences using
Herbal Green for this purpose, write me privately.

Good luck reclaiming that kissable face. :-)

Ruth Reynolds RAR@PHONL.com

------------------------

Subject: RE: eating poop
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:21:50 -0600
From: "Anita Schrodt"
To: "Berner-L"

Well, you can let the poop-eating drive you crazy or you can do what I
finally did - look at the bright side. She cleans up after herself .

Seriously, all three of my Berners do this off and on. The two older ones
had basically stopped and then along came pup, and pup did it. So the other
two joined in. It's sort of a vicious circle. I've seen it come and I've
seen it go. My older girl gets into it in the fall, almost like clockwork.
She'll stop around February. But if one does it, they all do it. It was my
older female Berner who first introduced me to this habit, and that started
when I was feeding her whole raw, unjuiced carrots, which came right back
out and of course, just begged to be eaten again.

Earlire this year, even my wee old dog, who had never eaten poop in his 18
years on this earth, followed the Berners' cue.

I tried EVERYTHING. All the chemical additives, pineapple, "leave it",
running around behind the dogs with my baggies, even XXX-rated hot sauce
(yum yum was their reaction). Running right behind them with baggies was the
only sure-fire cure - and that's not even a cure, it's just maintenance.

It's been my observation that some dogs do it, doesn't matter if they're on
kibble or Barf, if they're skinny or fat, what supplements they get or
whatever. The more bored my guys are (we've been kinda housebound by the
weather, so they're pretty bored right now ) the worse they get. On the
other hand, they can spend three hours of aggressive bone-chewing and go
right outside and start poop-hunting. And of course, there's absolutely
nothing as much fun as treasure-hunting for poopsicles in the snow!

For my own sanity, I finally decided it's a dog thing. After all, first
thing they see their mothers do is clean up after the pups. It may even be
a Berner thing (I never had the problem with other dogs) - but I certainly
have seen other breeds do it.

As long as they keep their stinky breath away from me and drink some water
when they come back inside. . .

Anita Schrodt
With snacking Berners in Iowa
mailto:schrodt@pcpartner.net

------------------------

Subject: re: poop eating
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 11:00:31 -0700
From: "Joyce Rogers"
To: berner-l@prairienet.org

Hello all,

Hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas and are looking forward to
an even better New Year!!

With all the discussion of "poop eating" I thought I might share my
2cents. When I had a concern about this behaviour I asked my vet
about it. She gave me some tablets to add to the dog's food which
made the poop taste horrible and the next time the dog ate the poop
was the last time the dog ate it. I really don't know the name of the
stuff (and I can't find out because it's boxing day and our vet office is
closed) but it certainly cured the habbit. It also helped when the our
puppy discovered the tasty brown nibblies in the cat litter box, I added
it to the cat's food (under the vet's guidance), the puppy got into the
litter box again, and again for the last time. It's just an additive to the
food and makes the poop taste so bad that (almost 100% of the time)
they don't want to eat it anymore. I don't know if poop eating is
"normal" or if it is something they "need to do" once in a while, I just
know that as close as we are to our dogs with their being up with us on
the couch and sometimes the bed and "in our faces" I'd rather not be in
the face of a poop-eating puppy. All the rest of the "stuff" they are into
is bad enough - but if I can use something for a quick fix that isn't
going to harm them - so that they don't have "poop breath" - I'll take it !
! ! Anyway, I don't know if you can get this additive from the vets in the
US (which I would think you could), but I got it from my vet here in
Canada. Hope this may help. If I can get the name of it from our vet
in the next couple of days I'll pass it along if anyone is interested.
Take care,

Kindest Regards, JOYCE
Berner Baby KIRBY (I've finally out-grown Bella by at least 2 inches !!!),
Big Sis BELLA (Lab/ChowX- wow, the furball is bigger than me)
Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada


-------------------------------------------------------------

BERNER-L Digest 2891

Subject: Re: Eating Poop
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 04:18:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Mandy Brecht
To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List

"When I had a concern about this behaviour I asked my
vet
about it. She gave me some tablets to add to the
dog's food which
made the poop taste horrible and the next time the dog
ate the poop
was the last time the dog ate it. "

I agree.. I recently had this problem with Sasha..
our vet told ud to by the pills from Pet Smart.. she
tried to eat poop after we started giveing her the
pills and she definately did not like the taste.. she
now sniffs it, but then turns away!!! YEA!!! I
forgot that name (it is at home) but any good pet
store should be able to help.. or your vet.

Mandy
Columbia, MD

------------------------------

Subject: re: poop eating, but a different kind
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 08:32:44 -0800
From: "Matt & Julia Richert"
To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List

Our Berner, Lily, and our mini schnauzer, Max, are poop connoisseurs. It drives us
crazy!!! They would never deign to eat their own excrement, or even each other's,
but there is nothing more delightful to them than elk or deer droppings.

We are at our wit's end with this! Every time we let them out, they will make a
mad dash around the yard, noses to the ground and whomever finds the "goodies" first
will bark to alert the other. They then proceed to chow down, and will continue
even if I'm screaming "NO!! Leave it!!!" and running toward them with arms-awavin'.
The know "leave it" and are reliable with in all circumstances except this one.
They'll even drop the nasty mystery carcasses they frequently find on the beach
when told to, but

Does anyone have any suggestions about how to curb this? They are both on Innova,
supplemented with Missing Link, and receive raw bones and veggies a couple times
a week. The vet has cleared them both as in perfect health. We play and work A
LOT; Max is learning agility and Lily is working toward therapy certification --
so I really don't think they're bored. I've gotten to the point that I only take
them out on their leashes to go potty, so they can't dash for the poo. But during
the day, they are in

Any suggestions would be welcomed!

Julia, exasperated mom
Lily & Max, pooches with the stinkiest breath in town

-----------------------

Subject: Re: Eating Poop
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 14:03:49 -0500
From: "Melissa Zebley, DVM"
To: berner-l@prairienet.org



Two brand names for this product are Forbid and Deter. The forbid is a
powder (though it may also come in tablet form), while I believe the Deter is
a tablet. I think Deter is what Petsmart carries. There are probably other
similar products available as well. Most only take one or two treatments to
work. But you do have to treat the pet who is producint the "delicacy", not
the one eating it, unless that happens to be one and the same.

Melissa
date:   30-Sep-2003
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