berner.org

The Berner-l on Hot Spots

courtesy Pat Long

BERNER-L Digest 114

Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:41:29 +0200 (EET) From: Bjorn.Hemming@vtt.fi (Björn Hemming) To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Licking @ skin problem

Hi all berner friends !

First I apologize for me not having time to look up all the words in a dictionary, but I hope i well be understod. I assume there is a FAQ for my problem but I could't find it.

My dog "Kapten" is a 4.5 year old boy. He has always had a good fur but dry skin. He eats a dry food called "Royal Canin" here in Finland (North-Europe). Three months ago he started licking. The doctor said it was a "hot-Spot" and it was temporarily cured with medicine.

Now my problem is that he has started licking again and now the doctor says I should start giving him either lamb or chicken together with rice. My question is: is it OK or even better if give him dry foods like "Nutros natural choice" (= easy in the kitchen and vitamins etc. added for dogs with skin problems). My doctors orders are of course No 1. for me but I am grateful for advice and experiences from you.

Regards Björn Hemming

E-mail: Bjorn.Hemming@vtt.fi

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Date: 16 Oct 95 08:31:23 EDT From: Sally.Trachier@Dartmouth.EDU (Sally Trachier)

To: berner-l@firefly.prairienet.org Subject: Re: Licking @ skin problem

I too have a 3 year old male berner with a licking, biting, scratching problem.

We have tried many things ie: special shampoos, Dermcaps, olive oil on his food, one-time steroid shot and steroid pills (which I might add we were not very much in favor of, but the shot did help for awhile). Jesse (the berner) had been on a diet of just Iams dry food, which we now have switched to Lamb and Rice Iams. None of the above things have seemed to help. Oh yeah he is also on Program (which is the new anti flea medication) so I know he doesn't have fleas.

Sometimes Jesse scratches so much that he becomes exhausted! I would love to hear from other owners who may have some suggestions!

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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:41:21 -0600 From: becktel@cris.com (Marianne Becktel) To: berner-l@firefly.prairienet.org Subject: Re: Licking @ skin problem

Hi Bjorn

They used to sell Royal Canin in the US, and we used it for two years until we could no longer get it. I liked the kind that had pasta and dried vegetables in it. It was a good food.

Hot spots are any place that dogs keep itching and scratching. It could come from an allergy, or flea bites, or dry skin, or infections (like staph). It seems like your doctor thinks it may be an allergy reaction. Maybe.

NutroMax is also sold here, and is pretty good. It is not too high in protein and fat, and does not have the preservative ethoxyquin. If you are willing to change, it may do Kapten good. I often tell the people I place puppies with that it is a good food. Dry food is always better for the dog, I think.

Bernese often have dry skin. When this happens to ours, we add some cooking oil (like olive oil or canola oil or vegetable oil or cod liver oil) to the food. About a tablespoon. This often helps the dry skin. If this begins to make your dog fat, then it is not what he needs.

We also find that "tea tree oil" is very good at helping the hot spots disappear. We get it from dog supply houses or at a health food store. Even putting a used (cool) wet tea bag on the hot spot helps, because it is a fungicide and fights bacteria too. Just hold it there for a little while several times a day.

I hope this helps you. (Your message was good and very clear.)

Marianne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ becktel@cris.com Bob, Marianne & Sean at the Schatzhof, Bay City, Michigan Home to Schatzi, Sidli, and Facet - 3 generations of Bernese Mountain Dogs

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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 14:37:08 EDT From: EPBL83A@prodigy.com ( SUSAN ABLON) To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Licking @ skin problem

The problems I have had with skin have involved one of two things. Either thyroid or allergy (or a combination of both). In Texas we have the heat to contend with and it seems to aggravate the condition. Last summer I could not keep my young male from getting one hotspot after another. He was bathed each week kept inside in the air- conditioning and given Program (which took about 5 mos. to have an impact on the 2 acres the dogs run on.) I was at wits end and went to my vet for help.

We started by giving Martin a shot of cortisone to stop the immediate itching. I then switched his diet to lamb and rice. Natures Recipe puppy was the only one I found without wheat corn soy or chicken. Then the magic seemed to be putting him on a fish oil called Salmanelic (sp?) This took about 5-6 wks to have an effect however Tye (my vet) says that it helps to build the immune system thus fight the allergys.

I am a skeptic when it comes to holistic cures but I must say this does seem to work. He has been putting on coat and not scratching and although still may have an infrequent hotspot it is easily controlled.

Susan Ablon

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BERNER-L Digest 119

Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 18:31:45 +0000 From: "Geoff Everist" To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: G'day from some more Aussies!

Hi everyone! ...

BTW I also find Tea Tree Oil rinses good for hot spots, although this is on my BCs, Bernie hasn't had a problem so far. There is also a disgusting green anti-bacterial, anti-fungicidal, anti-everything ointment my vet gives me that clears up the inflammation within 24 hrs usually. Brisbane has hot, humid summers so this can be a problem. We enjoy reading every new digest and would love a calendar!

Geoff, Sally & Bernie Everist.

PS. Hi Nicole.

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BERNER-L Digest 329

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:24:09 -0600 (MDT) From: Cindy Still To: LRBohlig@aol.com Cc: List Berner Subject: :Hot Spots

Litia & Family,

Welcome! Glad to know you have become a member of the cyberville community.

I have a bitch that seems prone to hot spots. I have tried several different remedies, and have finally seemed to find one that works.

First I wash the affected area with a good anti bacterial soap. (You can get the human kind at the drug/grocery store). Then quite simply I sprinkle plain ordinary baking soda over the area. I have seen miracalous (sp?) results with the spot drying up almost overnight.

If the healing process doesn't begin quickly, you probally need to repeat the process but after clipping all hair away from the affected site. The goal is to keep air and dryness to the area.

Hope this helps,

Cindy Still cindy@array.com

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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 96 11:36:26 EDT From: molly bass To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: :Hot Spots

Hi all.....

Bogen is allergic to tick bites and often develops hots spots following the removal of a large tick. What I do that works great is to wash the affected area with hydrogen peroxide then put an antibiotic ointment on it. It always works and keeps it from developing into a hot spot.

Once in a while I miss one and it develops into a hot spot. If so, I clean in at least 2 times a day with hydrogen peroxide and dust it with Neopredef powder. The powder takes away the itching, helps dry up the area, and provides antibiotic to help it heal. I can usually get them to scab over in a few days then I just leave them to heal. I have not had to shave the area with this method.

Another method I have heard that works, although I have never tried it, is to put kelp in their diets. This helps prevent the non-tick type of hot spots by providing nutrients to the skin to keep it healthy (or so I have been told).

Molly, Bogen, and Bianca Charlottesville, VA

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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 08:50:34 +0800 From: Gael.Goldsack@uts.edu.au (Gael Goldsack) To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Hot spots

Hi Litia and all Hot spots are a common problem in Sydney's hot humid summers. Kiri has had a few. The main thing is to act quickly - before they get too big! I shave or clip the hair away for at least an inch all around (the hair will eventually fall out anyway and by shaving early the spot will stay small and dry quicker) I then bathe the spot twice a day with Hibiclens (available from the pharmacy) and then rinse and pat dry with clean tissues. Keep up this treatment until the scab is quite dry and starting to lift. Kiri's first hot spot grew very quickly and the vet gave her a cortisone injection to stop the spread and reduce the inflammation. Since then, I have been able to control them with Hibiclens. Hope this helps

Gael and Kiri (You didn't tell them how much they itch!)

Gael Goldsack Laboratory Manager Department of Environmental Biology and Horticulture University of Technology, Sydney. Westbourne St., Gore Hill. NSW 2065 Australia gael.goldsack@uts.edu.au Phone +61 (02) 3304363 Fax +61 (02) 3304362 # from July 1996 prefix '330' will change to '9514'

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BERNER-L Digest 339

Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 09:29:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jules Gitelman To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Hi Again!

Hi, All!

I've been out of town on vacation, only to return home to some *major* computer problems. I've spent the past 2 weeks catching up on all of the old digests and thought I'd add some comments on what I've read as well as add a few of my own.

HOT SPOTS Last year, Gatsby discovered that he is *severely* allergic to fleas. His hot spot was about 15" x 10" (this happened overnight if you can believe it) and very icky! His doggie dermatologist had to give him a cortisone shot and some antibiotics for immediate relief. Long term: DermaCaps ES (extra strentgh) twice per day. Also, I got this great topical spray...I can't remember the name, but it contains cortisone so it heals while it stops the itching -- also, it tastes horrible so he no longer wants to bite at the spot. Gastby has gone from being almost bald one year ago to having a beautiful, shiny, full coat today. This stuff really works!

...

Sorry for the length of this, but I wanted to "catch up!" Big Berner smiles to everyone! :) :) :) Jules Beth Gitelman San Francisco, CA jules@pacbell.net

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BERNER-L Digest 343

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 12:16:59 -0400 From: mreho@outland.mitre.org (Marjorie E. Reho) To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: What causes Hot Spots?

Just because a dog gets wet, doesn't mean he/she will develop a hot spot. My first Berner developed hot spots no matter what we did. I guess it went along with all his other problems (there's a lot that can be discussed regarding an immune system that seems to malfunction in numerous areas). He was a *very* allergic dog too. But since the days of Jamie, we've been quite lucky (knock on wood). I too had a Berner who literally used to do back flips while chasing the water shooting out of the sprinkler. We let her do it all the time and never had a hot spot on her, ever, not once. And I live in hot and humid Virginia. [It was great fun to watch, especially since she was a very large-boned bitch who was stocky, never overweight, and 24-1/5 inches, 98 pounds of bone and muscle.]

As to bathing in the summer -- no matter what time of the year, I always blow dry my dogs completely. I figure it's just part of preventive maintenance. While these girls do not seem to be prone to hot spots (none have had them), why chance it?

If you do have chronic hot spots, I would certainly run a check on the thyroid level, just to be sure that's not the culprit. Next, I would try to remove any flea problem -- I treat the yard instead of the dog. My last likely candidate for hot spots (chronic skin allergies), I corrected by spaying -- she hasn't had an allergy problem since. My dogs do spend most of the summer indoors in the AC.

But from what I've seen, dogs susceptable to hot spots get hot spots -- so be very careful with the damp coats on these dogs. Dogs who don't get hot spots, just don't get hot spots, so don't worry so much with them.

-Margie and the Dallybeck girls (Virginia, USA)

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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 21:09:07 -0500 (CDT) From: gwebara@cyberramp.net (susan ablon) To: mreho@outland.mitre.org, berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: What causes Hot Spots?

Not all chronic skin allergies are hormone related (thyroid or sex hormones) but may be caused by environmental allergens most commonly seen are food additives and bacterias. Staph is a bacteria that is found in the environment and is usually found in many hot spots. While the dog is on keflex there are no hotspots. The antibiotics work much better than steroids and the rate of infection is increased with the hot humid weather of the south. My question is has anyone tried desensitization for control of staph. Thinking about using a product called staphlysate.

In discussion with my vet she mentioned some work done with levamisole (wormer for sheep) to control staph on the skin but because she did not know how this would react with ivermectin (heartwormer) I was unwilling to try it without more information.

Another option discussed was immunoregulan. This is an IV and given over a period of weeks. My guess is that it is to boost the immune system. More information would be appreciated. My vet loves to try new things with me and my dogs and when I have an idea of the treatment and I know it will not make the situation worse I am willing to experiment.

Susan Ablon and Felicidad's Granville Grand UD (retired) Ch.October's Eye on the Prize TD (looking for the X) and a host of other Berners in various stages of training and retirement gwebara@cyberramp.net Balch Springs Tx.

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BERNER-L Digest 344

Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:25:44 -0400 From: "A. Davies" To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: What causes hot spots?

Has anyone found any correlation between the occurrence of hot spots and the dog having received a rabies shot within the past 3 months? Several of us have been suspicious that a dog who is prone to hot spots anyway may have these episodes triggered by vaccinations.

Please note, I said dogs who are already prone to hot spots, I am not suggesting vaccinations may cause hot spots.

Thoughts?

Toni

Toni Davies a.davies@sympatico.ca Quarrie Reg'd BMD Kitchener, ON, Canada

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BERNER-L Digest 346

Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 11:38:48 +0000 From: Tami Winner To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Amount of food to feed

I would like to respond how much food to feed your dog. I owned a lab for twelve years that consistantly ate 3 cups of dry food a day. He weighed 90 pounds. I never had any problems with his weight or coat once I put him on a good dog food. I fed Nature's Recipe Lamb and Rice. Prior to that I tried feeding other food as long as it did not have corn in it. He had a bad hot spot problem that took several years to "cure". For three years he would get these terrible hugh hot spots just above the tail. The Vet would always give him a shot of cortisone and say that he was allergic to fleas. I believed him, we had just moved from Alaska, where there were no fleas. Finally I saw a Vet that specialized in skin problems in school. He took one look at him and asked what I was feeding. He then told me it was the corn. He recommended AvoDerm or Science Diet. After one bag of AvoDerm, the hot spot was completly gone, so I decided to try Science Diet since it was easier to find. Although the bag of Science Diet says there is corn, I figured it must be processed a different way. Seven days of feeding, and a hugh hot spot. I got a full refund for the rest of that bag and fed AvoDerm until newer food came out - Nature's Recipe. I put my Rott. puppy on Nature's Recipe when I got her, and she never would gain any weight. She always looked so gangly. So I guess not every food is right for every dog. Although I do not have a dog at this time, (waiting for a berner), I recommend Nutro Max or Sensible Choice to my friend's, and people I dog sit for. I have seen remarkable results with both.

Tami Winner(soon to be a berner owner)

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BERNER-L Digest 399

Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 01:12:49 -0400 From: LRBohlig@aol.com To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Hot Spots: Here We Go Again

!Hola!

Poor Kodiak. I was on the kitchen floor again this morning cutting away hair - another hot spot. I have been meaning to post a note about them, and then saw Terri's note about itching in the #397 digest so I thought I'd come on and tell about our progress (or the lack of it) with itching .

Kodiak was treated with anitbiotics for a staph infection. After getting four large hot spots, we took him to the vet in great frustration. We told of his "grass allergy" after seeing white pimples all over his belly. The vet said it was a classic sign of staph infection. (A whole month he had it and we thought it was just hot spots from the heat :-(

So we were told to use benedryl for the itching and to dry up the hot spots. Half an adult dosage gets that wild look out of Kodiak's eyes. A full adult dosage makes him sleepy and completely stops the itching. We reserve the full adult dosage for at night.

Calamyne lotion works well. Athlete's foot powder works well too. Also, we clean well with an antibacterial soap at the sight frequently.

So yesterday I took him with me to the pet store. He was a hit with the public (as all our Bernese are wherever we go). But one lady wanted to know if his eyes were always so red. Sure enough, they were too red, as was the inside of his mouth. Back home we go and more antibiotics. I have a call to the vet, but am afraid of cortisone shots or some such thing. But how long does this go on?

We have two new hot spots. One dried up over night with the careful cleaning. But the other one is growing, although the skin is no longer red and irritated looking. Just slimy.

Maybe a stronger antibiotic? He is on cephalexin 500mg, 2ea three times a day.

Anyone want to arm-chair quarterback this one?

Litia Crockett CA :-(

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BERNER-L Digest 403

Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 14:11:40 -0400 From: LRBohlig@aol.com To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Staph Lysate

Update on Kodiak and his hot spots.

All hot spots have stopped and are dried up. I called our vet directly after receiving a nice e-mail from Cindy Stauch about Staph Lysate and the history that she have experience with hot spots and recurring Staph infections.

Kodiak was indeed showing signs of a recurring staph infection and our vet had us start anitbiotics once again. (We had already begun with anitbiotics the night before.) In just twelve hours, the skin looked a healthy pale pink again, no blood red meat-looking mouth, thank you very much. His demeanor was returning to a youthful 4+ instead of the hang dog old man.

I mentioned to our vet that I was concerned about the staph infection coming back. He reassured me that they can be troublesome and that I must make sure to never miss the time for his meds. and that we would be taking them for a solid three weeks. Before I could ask about Cindy's e-mail he brought up the Staph Lysate and that he wanted to use it on Kodiak.

As best as I can describe it, it is a vaccine with the Staph infection in it which is used over a series of weeks, months to increase the immune system. Used along with the antibiotics, it should work well. It is an injection that my husband will have to learn since I do not have the stomach for anything medical.

It is costly (around $90 / 10cc) and the dose is 1cc per week (for Kodiak). But faced with the alternative of recurring infections, we will try it. I do not wish to ever see a hot spot again in my lifetime.

I am very interested in Barbara Grasso's post about herbal meds. Thanks, Barbara, for posting those great web sites! How 'bout product info on the Astralagsl 10+ itself? I'd like to write the company for buying info.

I'd love to hear the pros & cons about Staph infections and this Staph Lysate from our resident Vets on the Berner-L. Anyone else have any experience with Staph infections?

Litia B. Crockett, CA

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BERNER-L Digest 519

Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 22:28:47 EST From: kb-davis@juno.com (Kathryn L Butterfield-Davis) To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Max's hot spot

SharBMD wrote looking for a product called "Bits" for Max's hot spot. Can't help with info on Bits, but I have three things to say from my own experience with hot spots: 1. Many dogs who get hot spots are being fed a corn based dog food 2. Milk of Magnesia does a great job of drying up hot spots and... 3. Mycitracin made a hotspot on my Lab disappear over night.

Thh, thh, that's all folks!

Kathy Davis Windraider Retrievers Labradors & Flat Coats California

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BERNER-L Digest 593

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 07:55:56 -0500 From: Delma Smith To: "berner-l@prairienet.org" Subject: RE: MOISTURE DERMATITUS

Eric and Susan, you may call it MOISTURE DERMATITUS or a HOT SPOT, but the dogs enduring the problem just call it MISERY. No, it's not another one of those infamous "Berner problems". It can occur in ANY breed but is probably more common in breeds that carry a heavy undercoat. It pays to be vigilant about brushing, and remove dead coat in a timely fashion. Just as important is to make sure when you bathe your pal that he is dried DOWN TO THE SKIN. Years ago when we were invaded with seed ticks,I made the mistake of allowing my two young berners to DRIP DRY after being dipped. Within 18 hours they both developed horrible, horrible hot spots, one so severe the poor dog had to be tranquilized. Another dog developed a dreadful hot spot after playing in our pool and not being dried thoroughly. Hot spots were a common problem when I had shepherds that liked to romp in the mornings and would be soaked from the heavy dew. DUH..It took me a while to make the connection. Heat and/or humidity seem to have some influence. _ _ it happens. You can't avoid every hot spot, but you can reduce the risk by keeping coats tidy and DRY. Delma P.S. Dazzle,who's been there, extends her sympathy.

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BERNER-L Digest 803

Subject: hot spots, invisible fencing, humidity Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 08:54:54 -0500 (CDT) From: lorip1@ix.netcom.com (lori A phlamm) To: berner-l@prairienet.org

Someone jsut asked about hot spots and the humidity - Not sure I have any answers on how to prevent them but I will share our experience -

Right now bear has several hot spots - they are horrible!

We spent the weekend in michigan where it was very hot, humid and full of mosquitos - Bear was in and out of the water for two days.

The day after we got home, I noticed that he was bleeding on the side of his neck, of course it was on the white part of his neck so it looked initially like a puncture wound. Well, turned out to be a hot spot - three hot spots to be exact. We have to shave his neck and we put Tritop on it - from the vet - worked very well. The vet suggested that it was from the humidity and the invisible fencing collar. The spots were in the area where the metal prongs touched the neck. They commented that they see "holes" in the necks of some dogs that wear the collars all the time. The humidity and water over the weekend just made the spots worse.

Well, two days later we notice that he has a problem in the groin area. Wouldn't let me get near it. Turned out to be a severe hot spot - very infected - bear was whimpering and crying and had no interest in food. Can't even shave that area so he was given an injection of antibiotics and oral antiobiotics for ten days. His personality and appetite came back and as soon as he will let us near that area, we will treat it topically as well.

So, next time we will carry our air force dryer with us if he swims to be sure that he is dried to the skin after swimming, will keep in in if there are too many bugs and will keep the invisible fencing collar on only when he is outside.

Not sure if this will help anyone, but thought I would share. Hot spots are horrible!

Lori, ken and bear phlamm Illinois, USA

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BERNER-L Digest 804

Subject: Hot Spots Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:53:58 -0400 (EDT) From: DPKS@aol.com To: berner-l@prairienet.org

Hi all, Regarding the recent posts on hot spots. I use a wonderful product called Draw. I mix it half and half with water, then spray on the affected area. If I catch a hot spot just as it is developing I can get it cleared up in one or two days. A larger, more developed hot spot may take 3-5 days. This was developed as an equine product and is used for lameness, swelling and topical wounds as well. Draw contains: water,sodium, calcium, magnesium, sulphate, chloride and potassium. It is put out through DiamondHead Laboratories in Indianapolis, IN 46226. Their phone is 317-543-4886. I get mine through a distributer, Patricia Swygert in McLean VA. Her phone is 703-536-2515. So if you are having hot spot troubles, you might like to give this product a try. It comes in a large bottle and is kind of expensive but lasts a very long time since you dilute it with water. I had my first bottle for two years and I used it myself as well as on the dogs and gave quite a bit to friends. Hope this is helpful. D. Pearson and the Berner Boys in KS DPKS@aol.com PS- I have no financial affliation with this company

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BERNER-L Digest 850

Subject: Re: Hot Spots Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:07:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Bernerdog@aol.com To: berner-l@prairienet.org

Any advice on hot spots? I never had any problems with my dogs before or saw what they look like. Fritz has a small red kind of oozie spot that he keeps scratching. This is a bad time of the year for him with allergies (me too) --would that cause it? What is the best to put on something like that? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks--Suzi in sneezy N.J.

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Subject: Re: Hot Spots Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:18:57 -0400 (EDT) From: MotownYoda@aol.com To: Bernerdog@aol.com CC: berner-l@prairienet.org

a couple of things:

I have seen a dramatic decrease in itchies, in general, since I began feeding my dogs raw meaty bones on occasion (also feed a high quality dog food).

For the rare hot spot, I apply bag balm to the area after snipping away the hair to expose it to the air. There are many good hot spot remedies and I am sure others will share what works for them.

Good luck!

Lisa Allen

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Subject: Re: Hot Spots Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 17:38:17 -0500 From: Goffstein & Lindman To: berner-l@prairienet.org

Hi

The first thing is to have Fritz seen by a vet to rule out a bacterial or fungal infection that would require specific oral or topical antibiotics. If just topical care is needed I recommend Neo-Predef, a powder made by Upjohn. My seven and half year old Kari suffers from allergies year round and gets hot spots easily after getting wet in the water or during high humidity times. We have tried all sorts of lotions and sprays in the past but this works much more quickly. After two treatment I can see improvement and typically after two days the hot spot is only a fading pink spot. This remedy was recommended to me by Beth Friichtenicht and can only be gotten thru your vet. My vet had to special order it for me.

Barb Lindman of Iowa City and Berners Kari and Anja dlgof@earthlink.net

At 12:07 PM 8/26/97 -0400, you wrote: >Any advice on hot spots? I never had any problems with my dogs before or saw >what they look like. Fritz has a small red kind of oozie spot that he keeps >scratching. This is a bad time of the year for him with allergies (me >too)--would that cause it? What is the best to put on something like that? > Any info would be appreciated. Thanks--Suzi in sneezy N.J. > >

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BERNER-L Digest 929

Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 11:30:16 -0500 From: Suzanne Hartigan To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: lots o' comments

...

I also want to comment on Hot Spots and Advantage. I was using Advantage for a couple of months (used program before that) and this month I had a problem. On last Tues. Z got all his shots in the butt area, and that night I put the advantage on his neck. The next morning his hair was all clumpy at the side of his neck (a good 5 inches away from where you put the Advantage.) I thought he laid on something sticky but as I brushed it out all the hair came out and there was a big hot spot sore underneath. I immediately took him back to the vet. She said the Advantage could have irritated a cut on his neck. She gave him a shot of penicillin and cortisone (to stop the itching). At home I used hydrogen peroxide to cleanse the area since he kept putting his dirty feet all over it. I always made sure to blot it dry too. Within a few days it started to scab over. My big concern now is will the hair color change there? I know some dogs get white hairs to injury sites. Any comments on this?

My last comment, sorry so long, is to all of you trackers. I took Z out tracking this weekend and he acted like he had never done a start before. My instructor said "He's flipping you off" in his own doggy way. He loves to track and is always ready at the start. So we discussed this and realized because he had the shots earlier in the week it was prbably throughing of his scenting ability and desire. She said if she had realized sooner she wouldn't have put us on a track. So FYI if you are in tracking practice and you dog gets any shots or new meds give them a rest for a couple of weeks to let the medicine clear the body. If anyone else has comments on this I'd love to hear about them- posted or private.

Berner hugz to all, Suzanne Hartigan and Zurich

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BERNER-L Digest 933

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 97 11:46:29 UT From: "Leslie Farhangi" To: "Bernese Mailing List" Subject: hot spots/sleeping outside/advice re: anal gland infection Message-ID:

Belatedly to contribute to the hot spots info: my vet had me put aloe vera gel on them and they cleared right up (started healing within a day).

...

Thanks in advance for your help.

Leslie Farhangi and Basel lsfjpt@msn.com London England

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BERNER-L Digest 936

Date: Mon, 27 Oct 97 08:06:52 -0700 From: To: Subject: Hotspot question

Haven't heard too much about hotspots lately, then all of a sudden there are several mentions. Could it be change in the weather? (Although we're still having Indian summer here.) Busby just had a couple, the first time he's ever had them. What bothered me is that the vet seemed concerned because she didn't know what caused them. She hemmed and hawed quite a bit. The spots were located midway along his back, on each side of his spine about where a saddle would be if he wore one. Once he was shaved, we could see each side had one big spot and a bunch of tiny ones. The vet gave us antibiotics for ten days and said if there was no effect, come in and she would do a biopsy. Fortunately, the spots started to scab over after a day of pills, but one big spot was still there at the end of ten days so the vet gave us another week of pills. That spot is now gone too.

So what are the possible causes that could be concerning the vet? Busby has not had a change of diet lately, and was treated for fleas just before we went to the vet. I first noticed the spots because he was biting at them, although not gnawing frantically or even a whole lot, and no hair was gone. Nor was his fur snarly or matted there. Are there any systemic illnesses that could cause a hot spot type effect? The vet suggested that perhaps he had gotten a scratch or cut that got infected, but it seems odd he would get two symmetric abrasions. And then there were all those tiny spots. Any ideas, anybody?

Regards, Kate and Busby in Berkeley, CA, where the dogs are mellow, the bitches are empowered, and all of the puppies have high self-esteem

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Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:05:06 -0500 From: Pat Long & Paul Dangel To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Hot Spots

One of the prime causes of Hot Spots is fleas. Flea bite dermatitis. The dog doesn't have to have fleas, just being bitten can cause a reacion in many dogs. So products like Program, or any of the adulticides that are not also repellants will not help an allergic dog. Since the flea has to bite in order to die, it will still cause a hot spot. And we have fleas until the first hard frost - and later than that if they are already on your pets or in your house. Some households have them all year round.

Food allergies can also cause a reaction. Moisture has also been linked to hot spots by some list members.

The list has had discussions about hot spots on occasion, and many interesting remedies have been mentioned.

Digest index: 114-tea bag, tea tree, 119, 329, 334-remedies?, 336, 339-dermacaps, 341, 342-&wet?, 343*, 344, 346-corn, 399**, 403-staph, 519-milk of magnesia, 593-moisture, 595-moisture, 802-3-heat & humidity, 804-Draw, 850-bag balm, 850-Neo-Predef

Berner Browser: http://fizzy.waltham.harvard.net/~panda/bernerbrowser.html Archives: http://www.berner.org/current.html

Pat Long, Vesta & Maggie, (Sam & Luther) Philadelphia PA http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/

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Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 19:29:12 -0500 From: Lori Hershey & Werner Uhl To: berner l Subject: I'm back/hot spots

Hello! After a lovely trip to the Black Forest this summer (and lots of berner fun with berner people!), I finally find the time to get back on berner-l.

To the question of hot spots . . . when he was young, Roland always got a few hot spots in the fall. The vet attributed this to ragweed allergy, since it was always in the fall. (He didn't have fleas at the time!). He was given plain old ordinary benedryl, and also put on that special shampoo, for dandruff and hot spots. Always cleared right up. Now, he has "outgrown" the hot spots, but WILL still get the "itchies" and "dandruff"every fall. His coat starts to look dull and greasy on his back. This is still the ragweed allergy manifesting itself. He goes back on the shampoo (buy it at the vet, it works the best!) and I get some benedryl at Wal-mart. Clears it right up.

But I think there can be MANY different things which can cause hot spots, in addition to fleas. I had a golden retriever 10 years ago that LOVED to swim in the ocean. Since we lived near Long Island Sound, that was her favorite place to go swim and retrieve. She got hot spots EVERY time she swam in that water. So we simply gave her a bath after every outing, and she stopped getting the hot spots.

Anyhow, that's just my experience!!!! It's good to be back! Lori Hershey and Roland

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BERNER-L Digest 937

Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:22:17 -0500 (EST) From: MotownYoda@aol.com To: cluelass@cluelass.com Cc: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Hotspot question

Very odd, indeed! My Bernerkids have never been bothered by hot spots until recently. Then ONLY Jorda and Moses got some, not Yoda. Topical antiseptics and a trip to the veterinarian(which has Jorda looking as though she is suffering more from a bad hair day than from hot spots) have things well under control. Was told this time of year in the East is an allergy time. Lisa and Yoda (What's the problem here? I'm fine!) and Jorda(Will this grow back soon?) and Moses(Oh, what a relief it is!)

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Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:54:16 -0500 (EST) From: CandLDavis@aol.com To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Hot Spots and Diet

A couple of days ago - someone posted a web site about Goldens and "How to Feed a Golden Retriever". I believe that the web address is: www.dreamscape.com/food_html.html

I would urge anyone experiencing these problems to check out this site - I read it yesterday and found it very interesting.

I do believe that "you are what you eat" (humans and dogs). I, like the author of this page, have to question how many of the problems our dogs have are food-related.

I'm switching foods! I figure it is a small investment in the health of my pup. I want to do everything I can to make sure that she lives a long and healthy life.

Years ago (when I was a teenager) we had a dog who had really bad hot spots - and I can tell you we fed her junk (whatever was cheapest and on sale). I'll never know if diet could have helped - but it would have been an interesting experiment!

Don't mean to ramble about this. I guess my attitudes about food for humans have changed over the years too. (We lived in Boulder, CO - home of all kinds of "granola-types" - for a few years - so what can I say?)

Would be really interested to know if anyone has tried a diet change and had good results as far as hot spots, cancers, etc. You know what I found interesting about this web page? - the author claims that given the proper diet -a dog should not have fleas!!!!!

Any ideas, Berner-l ers?

Tailwags from Belle (who is now going to get "granola-type" food from her Mom) Lisa Davis Albuquerque, NM

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Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:44:13 -0800

From: "Kathy Kriner" To: cluelass@cluelass.com Cc: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Hot spots

Hi! I just read your post over the berner-l. I have a Bernese and other dogs who either have, or have had in the past cases of hotspots. "Hotspots" or acute moist dermetitis, is a common condition in dogs. It usually comes with allergies or stress, or can manifest itself as a staph infection. Bernese, at least the ones in my area, seem to be especially prone to these spots. I know that allergies are not one of your concerns right now, but it is something to consider. Unlike people, dogs have the histamines and other cells related to allergic reactions in their SKIN and not their lungs. People sneeze and cough to get rid of the irritants, while dogs scratch and lick. The scratching and licking opens up the area to staph infections and other related conditions that eventually end up in a -------->hot spot. Contrary to popular belief, hotspots are not always caused by a food allergy. A lot of the time, especially in the state of Washington, they are related to inhalent allergies like fir pollen, and maple leaf spores. The late summer and early fall are the key times for dogs in Washington, because of the maple leaves falling to the ground and decomposing, leading to a large amount of the irritant in the air, especially when there is activity around the area. The first question I had when I read this was "If they inhale it then why does it affect the skin and not the lungs?" My dog's veterinarian cleared this up for me. The dog, when in inhales the iritant, has a reaction that causes the itching, which causes the licking and scratching, which causes the hot spots. Key areas for this SEEM to be along the back, sides and flanks, as well as any part of the body that touched the ground. ANOTHER possiblity could be that your dog has been introduced to a stressful situation and had a neurological reaction. The dog, when it becomes nervous, turns to scratching and biting to "relieve" some of the tension. This is very similar to the human reactions, such as playing with hair, biting a lip, and chewing on nails. Yet another possibility is a hormonal reaction. If your dog is not altered, the chance for stress skyrockets through the roof! It doesn't even matter if there is a bitch in heat or not, but it does matter that the unaltered male has sexual urges, something everyone of use can remember from our teenage years (I happen to be facing that one on dates right now :-). Hormonal messanges to the brain cause the same neurological reaction as other stress, sometimes more severe. When a male is castrated there is a lower chance for the hotspot problems. Bob is going to have this done pretty soon :-(. I'm sure he wouldn't be happy about that one. Your veterinarian should check your dogs prostate glands and testicals to make sure there are no abnormal formations. A tumor on one of the sex organs can cause "testosterone poisoning" something I thought was only a joke, and it turned out to be true! When my veterinarian talks to the "dermatologist for dogs" she asks a couple of questions. 1. Has the dog had a medicated feed for two weeks? 2. Has the dog been castrated? 3. Is this seasonal for this dog? Now, this could be a staph infection, or other infections resulting in some kind of "run in," but the symmetry doesn't sound like this is the case. I don't want to be an alarmist, but when you take your dog in again I would have the vet run an ANA test. SLE, or systemic lupus erythematosis, is a disorder that is characterized by a few things in particular (even though the range of symptoms is baffling). Limping, stilted gait, stiff movement, or any other gait abnormalties, and symmetrical lesions along the back, body and typically face. This could have been what caused the concern for your vet. If your dog hasn't had a temperature, limped, or had a gait change, and it doesn't have any sores on or in its mouth, or any other strange things, I wouldn't really worry about it. The disease is REALLY rare. I was mainly concerned about it in my dog because of what MAY HAVE BEEN a hereditary predisposition. I still suspect it a little. Another thing, which is really a thing to JUST consider, is to have your dog allergy tested. This is really expensive, but does help around 50% of the patients. This basically causes a lot of expense, and a weekly injection. (I'm kind of biased. I had allergy tests and shots for a long time.) I hope your dog clears up!

Cami and "BOB"

P.S. For the hot spots, instead of using a corticosteroid like cortisone or prednisone, I urge that you try a more natural approach, or letting them heal on there own. If that isn't plausible, I would suggest putting on an Elizabethan collar on the dog so it can't chew and worsen the condition. As my vet put it, "Prednisone is a bad, bad drug, and I wouldn't want to see any dog near the stuff unless absolutely necessary." It is a strong drug that has been used as a less costly chemotherapy drug, and has been linked to causing Cushing's disease. I know because my Cairn is dying of it now.

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BERNER-L Digest 938

Date: Wed, 29 Oct 97 08:14:55 UT From: "Leslie Farhangi"

To: "Bernese Mailing List" Subject: hot spots

I believe some hot spots are stress related. Whenever Basel's epilepsy would go out of control he would get a hot spot. The vet said Basel could feel a seizure coming on and would scratch or chew himself either in anxiety or in an attempt to "channel" that feeling away from the seizure and into grooming.

Leslie & Basel lsfjpt@msn.com London

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Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:32:55 +0000 From: Delma Smith To: "berner-l@prairienet.org" Subject: Hot Spots..another view

I kept waiting for someone to comment about damp dogs and hot spots. Years ago we had shepherds and occasionally dealt with hot spots. Invariably the dog had been bathed a day or two before the hot spots developed . The worst hot spot experience we had was with eight month old Berner litter mates. We've almost never had fleas but some new people moved in next door and brought flea infested dogs with them. Being paranoid at the idea of being overrun with the pesky critters, I bathed the pups, dipped them with a product from the vet and let them "drip dry". BAD IDEA! Overnight both dogs developed HUGE oozing hot spots. I was camped at the vets office door when he arrived for work. While going over the dogs it became evident that deep down under the outer coat, they were still damp from the bath the previous day. We'll never know if the hot spots were caused by 1) the dip, 2) soap not completely rinsed out, 3) coats not sufficiently dried or 4) all of the above. Needless to say I learned a lot (unfortunately causing much misery to to my pups). In looking for answers, the only things that all the cases (shepherds, goldens and berners over a 25 year period) had in common was that their coats were damp from bathing, swimming, or playing with the water hose. Now when I bathe a dog, I soap and rinse at least three times then RINSE, RINSE, RINSE some more. Then I DRY, DRY, DRY right down to the skin. When the dogs get soaked from romping in the morning dew, I dry them thoroughly, then keep them inside until the sun has burned off the dew. I believe that the combination of heat, humidity, and a coat that is shedding and damp is a breeding ground for problems. It may not work for you, but it's been five years now since we've dealt with a hot spot, so I have no reason not to continue the regimen that appears to work for me. Good luck! Delma Smith (Pittsburg, KS)

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Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:47:37 -0500 From: peacefld@telplus.net To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re:Thanks, OOPS, and Hot Spots

Dear Bernerfolk Thank all of you for the warm welcome-my "coming out party" on the "l"- I still get nervous on the computer, and for good reason. Now for the OOPS. When going down through the welcome messages today, and sending replies, I have somehow managed to delete or otherwise loose at least one message that I had not answered! I can't remember who it was, but you asked about me having an apprentice some years ago! I didn't raise llamas then, but had a goat dairy and did have apprentices, though that name did not ring a bell. Thanks for writing! On to doggy things. I saw hot spots mentioned relative to diets etc. I recently had good luck with a cure I borrowed from my farming experience. My male got one right after my two young girls were in heat- I beleive it was triggered by "nerves", and it quickly became a goopy mess, so painful he did not like me applying meds, and he wasn't getting relief fast enough to keep him from scratching more. Then I remembered Furox (nitrofurazolidone), a dry, yellow antibacterial spray which I used on my livestock, with practically overnite results. I asked my vet re: the dog, and he said it wouldn't hurt, but he never used it for that purpose. (He has used a tiny spritz on puppies backs after he vaccinates them to make sure he doesn't do them twice!) To cut to the chase, I sprayed this on Micah's rather large and very painful hot spot. It doesn't sting, and it dries the oozey mess overnight. I have never seen a hot spot heal so fast. It does leave a yellow mark, but it wears or washes off. Two applications and he was fine (and no shaving!) This may not be new to you all- it lists canine pyogenic dermatitis on the label, but it could save a trip to the vet$$$$$$ Sherri Hamilton, and all the fur people at Peacefield! Dover-Foxcroft, Maine ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BERNER-L Digest 993

Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 08:42:14 -0600 From: Tripp and Brown To: "berner-l@prairienet.org" Subject: Natural Hot Spot Treatments

This is from the Wellpet List:

Hotspots are common in every breed - and in mixed breeds - of dogs. They are symptoms of something else going wrong internally, and need to be looked at as such. There are many different causes of hotspots, such as food allergy, cancer, boredom. Your vet should help you pinpoint the problem. A change in diet is almost always the best bet - *most* dogs on a natural, raw diet do not develop hotspots, or if they do it is part of the detox reaction, or they have been introduced to a new food item which they are sensitive to.

Here are some common things to help hotspots to heal WITHOUT suppressing the immune system:

1. Apply a cool slice or cucumber to the area. Let the dog eat it when it warms up - it works well on the outside as well as on the inside.

2. Brew a cup of chamomile tea, leaving the teabag in the cup to cool. When tea is cool, use teabag to apply the tea to the area. Let dog drink tea - it works to soothe on the outside (the tannic acid in teas also is an astringent) and calms them when they drink it.

3. Shave the area around the hotspot to get air to it and help it dry.

4. Gold Bond Powder - helps dry up the spots, and dogs don't like to lick it off.

5. Aloe Vera gel, freshly squeezed from the plant, helps to calm and heal. It can be ingested as well to work on the inside.

6. Internally, echinacea, Vitamin C, goldenseal, and garlic all help to boost the immune system.

7. Sometimes a hotspot is indicative of a chiropractic problem. An appointment with a certified chiropractor can often help.

8. Here's a recipe to make up and store in the fridge - 1/2 cup very strong tea, 1 cup rubbing alcohol, and 2 crushed aspirin. Stir this up and soak the hotspot with it several times a day until gone.

9. Mix equal parts extra virgin olive oil and oil of thyme. Apply to the hot spot with a cotton ball. This will stop itching and prevent infection.

10. Sprinkle goldenseal powder on the animal's food and in the water. DO not use too much or for more than 7 days on, 5 days off. You can also apply the goldenseal root to the hotspot, just make a weak tea out of it. Is perfectly fine if it is licked off.

11. Put a large handful of spearmint or peppermint leaves in a glass container and cover with distilled white vinegar. Allow to steep at room temp for 2 weeks. Shake from time to time. Strain. Apply the liquid to any sore on the animal and to clean wounds; this also stops itching and allows wounds to heal.

12. Apply WIllard Water to the hotspot.

As you can see, none of these are drugs, which suppress the immune system. Suppressing the immune system is not recommended, because it only drives the problem deeper into the body, and the next symptom may not be hotspots but something much more serious. If your chews on herself out of boredom - give her a job to do! A large meaty bone, more exercise, more training - this can help break the cycle of a lick granuloma. Again, the best thing to do for a hotspot is try one of these remedies and change the diet to a more natural one.

I hope these help you,.

**Disclaimer - This advice is not meant to take away from the advice of a veterinarian. Always contact your doctor before starting any new regime.**

PS - I found that zinc oxide cream worked on a hot spot on my dog (incombination with echineacea/goldenseal tincture).

-- Hunka Hunka Berner Love - Kimberlite Kennels Reg'd. Debbie Tripp - Saskatchewan Canada. Berners since 1986, 3 litters to date: http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/tripd/index.htm

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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:03:57 -0800 From: enstone@uniserve.com (Randy Saunders) To: Berner-l@prairienet.org Cc: JMJaaneHo@aol.com Subject: Re: Introduction and Help Needed:Hot Spots

Dear Maryanne,

Hot spots are a very frustrating thing to have to deal with. You could check into the following possiblities:

1) Perhaps your dog(s) have an allergy to fleas. If they have this they will chew at the bites and cause a hot spot. Flea control is a whole other issue, of course.

2) Even if you are using a quality food, it may not suit your Berners. Perhaps a change of food may help.

3) A distant possibility is Scarcoptic Mange. Do your dogs seem itchy a lot? It is very hard to diagnose but can be treated with Ivermectin (I think that is how it is spelled) given orally. Your vet is the one to discuss this with.

As far as a home remedy, we have found that a cream called Penaten (normally used for diaper rash) helps take away the itching, but it may not be the full resolution to the problem, depending on what the cause of the hot spot is. You can get it at most drug stores. Works good on Humans, too.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Randy

================================================================= Randy Saunders Enstone (Reg'd) Bernese Mountain Dogs Mission, BC CANADA e-mail: enstone@uniserve.com

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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 17:18:01 -0600 From: Tripp and Brown To: bigdog@dreamscape.com Cc: "berner-l@prairienet.org" Subject: Re: hotspots

Denn wrote: > > The natural remedies for hot spots were great. I would add just one > caution--zinc is very poisonous to dogs, so it's not a good idea to put zinc > oxide anywhere the dog could lick it.

Are you sure? Where did you get this information?

Zinc is a necessary part of a dog's diet for healing tissues. Even some commercial dog foods contain zinc. One of necessary primary minerals a dog requires is zinc. Zinc in necessary for all the functions of tissue repair and healing in the pet or human body. Vitamin absorption, especially B-vitamins, is dependent upon zinc. Many pets with "allergies" are actually zinc deficienct.

(paraphrased from the "Natural Remedy Book for Dogs and Cats", by Diane Stein)

I would imagine a over-supplement of zinc would be toxic, as would anything taken in excess.

However, I'd would appreciate information that you have on the contrary, that zinc is actually poisonous to dogs. Thanks.

-- Hunka Hunka Berner Love - Kimberlite Kennels Reg'd. Debbie Tripp - Saskatchewan Canada. Berners since 1986, 3 litters to date: http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/tripd/index.htm

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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:28:22 -0500 From: "Jane S. Sweetman" To: "INTERNET:berner-l@prairienet.org" Subject: MAX's Skin Problems

You probably have a "HOT SPOT" This is American slang for a skin problem that starts like itching and then looks like a burn. They are very fast to develop, sometimes only 2 hours. Here is what to do: If you can, get some ALOE VERA GEL. Treat this sore just like a burn. Trim the hair away, if you can, but don't hurt your dog. If you can get some HYDROCORTISONE CREAM 1% to mix half and half with the aloe vera, that's good, too. Put the gel and cream in the palm of your hand. USE MORE THAN YOU THINK IS RIGHT. If you can, just press the gel/cream on the sore. Rubbing or trying to spread it will cause pain, so if your palm is covered thickly, you can press it on without friction. The aloe vera gel will cool the burn quickly. Repeat this every 4 to 6 hours while the inflammation is acute. When a crust forms, reduce treatments to twice a day. As the crust comes off, and hair begins to grow again, back off to once a day, once every other, etc. Preventing hot spots is hard to do with some dogs. Here are a few tricks: Brush out the smallest of mats every day. The pulling of the hair around mats will cause hot spots. If the dog gets wet, do not let him sit down or lie down on wet hair. Just the dampness and pressure can generate a hot spot. Walk him dry, just the way you would walk him out if he were going to get into your car after a swim. Some dogs get hot spots in the same place, time after time. Treat this as a sort of focal point of your attention--maybe he licks it wet, then sits on it....who knows? I have found that when my dogs are 'blowing coat' the best thing I can do is give them a lot of brushing, frequent baths, and the attentions of a shedding comb and an undercoat rake. Some creme rinse after a shampoo can help get out the excess hair and make blowing coat easier. Don't forget to trim nails and the excess hair around the pads.

Good luck, and happy New Year! Send me a message if you need more help. Your English is fine....if you need another language, I can do some French.

Jane Sweetman Bel Air, Maryland, USA

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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:54:11 +0100 From: "MAX" To: Subject: Berny skin problem

From: "MAX" To: "maxrocket" Subject: skin problem Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:46:35 +0100

Hi !

I recived many usefull informations about Berny` skin problem. Many people think that is HOT SPOT or WETT ECZEMA. I saw photo of HOT SPOT on WEB and I can say that Berny`s wound looked much worse. There are lot of fester. We cleaned it 3 times a day with hidrogen peroxide and after 7 days wound is dry and scurfy. Berny is on antibiotic ( 3 inj. ) and corticosteroid ( 2 inj. ) I know that is not good for him , but my vet say that is OK. I changed food ( before - Purina puppy chow with 30 % proteine, 11 % fat ) to Eukanuba Lamb and rice with 20 % proteine. We are living in Croatia ( Europe, ex Yugoslavia ). We have Purina, Eukanuba, Omega, Pedigree Pal, Friskas, Nuttro Max .. Have You any advice? My vet also suggest MURNIL pulver (BAYER - Germany ). This is adition for ski and fur - fatty acid and vitamine H ?

I am concerned beacuse of Berny still scratch himself.

Thank you for help. Max and Berny

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Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 13:38:58 -0500 From: Sherri To: "berner-l@prairienet.org" Subject: thoughts on 1090-1093

...

Re: Bailey's hot spot, I wonder how old he is. It seems that many males around the pubescent (8-10 mos) stage/age are prone to hot spots in that very place- the back of the neck, or around the withers. I think it is as much "nerve" related, as the hormones change, as related to diet (especially if the diet hasn't changed.) I use Furox spray powder (furazolidone) for fast relief and healing.When Mike has one, he doesn't want me touching it. How about an informal survey about the age and sex of dogs most prone to hot spots? (None of my girls have ever had one, nor has my neutered boy).

Re: vets etc. I am grateful my vets have been there for me when I needed them, they are still charging too little for their services, but I am grateful for that too. I use homeo., and natural methods when I can, and they support that, when I decide to go that way. Too bad others have experiences which leave them with a jaded view, but that view is their right, as is disagreeing with their posts. Name calling however, is no one's right, and discredits the "caller", rather than the target.

Sherri H., with six cabin-feverish berners (I am minimizing play on the ice to keep feet and limbs intact!)

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Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 15:32:53 -0500 (EST) From: Toni Davies To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: hot spot survey

Same here, no females have suffered from this malady. Find that males are more prone to hot spots in the late summer/early fall starting at around the age of 1 year.

Has anyone done any 'research' on the familial aspects of 'hot spots'?

Toni Davies Quarrie Reg'd Kitchener, Ontario a.davies@sympatico.ca

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Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 21:13:24 -0500 From: Tari Hafner To: a.davies@sympatico.ca Cc: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: hot spot survey

Toni,

Mostly my females have had hot spots. I only had one male get one and it unfortunately left a scar right on the end of his blaze where it always showed terribly. I had one bitch who got them year round and it seemed like as soon as one cleared up, there would be another.

Tari Hafner Takari Kennels Fulton, NY

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Subject: TT expectations, hot spots & my problems with e-mail Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:50:13 -0500 From: "Toni Davies" To: "Berner-l"

...

Regarding hot spots, I've tried a great many remedies. Here's the ones I found worked best. For small spots, Gold Bond Foot Powder. For larger spots, medication from the vet-Novolexin, (Baytril works well also but isn't generally prescribed for hot spots). I suggest you don't wait and fool around with too many home remedies because 1. they cause the dog a great deal of discomfort and 2. they spread like crazy and may leave scar tissue (thickened skin).

The tiny survey I did regarding hot spots resulted in the general concensus of breeders that the problem does have a familial connection. There was no agreement as to cause nor any hereditary pattern determined.

Toni Davies Quarrie Reg'd Kitchener, Ont. Canada a.davies@sympatico.ca

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BERNER-L Digest 1353

Subject: Sure Fire Hot Spot Cure Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 07:50:30 -0600 From: Deb Tripp & Peter Brown To: "berner-l@prairienet.org"

I have used this remedy and it works:

Ingredients:

Boric Acid (available at drug store) Corn Starch

Mix equal parts of the above (such as 2 tablespoons each). Put this into a container with a lid, and shake the mixture well.

Liberally apply the dry mixture (do not add water) to the hot spot using a clean make-up brush or a shaving brush. Repeat a couple times a day.

No need to cut the hair away from the hot spot, so is very good for a show dog.

You should see healing results within 1 day.

-- Hunka Hunka Berner Love - Kimberlite Kennels Reg'd. Debbie Tripp - Saskatchewan Canada. Berners since 1986, 5 litters to date: http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/tripd/index.htm "Time wounds all heels."

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Subject: Re: Sure Fire Hot Spot Cure Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:58:46 -0700 From: "Kathryn Butterfield-Davis" To:

Milk of Magnesia works great to dry up a hot spot & because it's a liquid initially, you don't have to shave the spot. One time when on a trip, I found a quarter-size hot spot on the neck of a bitch that had been brought to me just before we left. I had no M. of M. with me, so rubbed in Neosporin. The hotspot was gone the next morning & the scab-crust on the hotspot was easily removed.

Kathy Windraider Retrievers Flat Coats, Labradors, a BIG, bouncing Berner boy & California a spoiled rotten Amer. Eskimo

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Subject: Hot Spots Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 01:05:23 -0700 From: Judy Arneson To: berner-l

Under no circumstances do I allow a vet to take clippers to any of my show dogs to treat a hot spot or anything else. This was a very expensive lesson to learn, and the hair can come back in anything from a different texture to a slightly different color, and takes a year to grow out.

Treatment of choice is Caladryl lotion, spread on the spot.

Second treatment of choice, by the Emergency clinic, is Desinex foot powder spray.

These are just two options, both have worked immediatly to relive pain and itching, with no after effects for both myself and a Bearded Collie breeder/friend. (She is a vet tech, worked at the Emerg clinic, and told me of the Desinex treatment)

Judy Arneson Kielerstar Bernese

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BERNER-L Digest 1353

Subject: Re: Info Needed Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:28:17 EDT From: MotownYoda@aol.com To: fnjmk@AURORA.ALASKA.EDU CC: berner-l@prairienet.org

A dog with multiple hot spots should probably see a veterinarian.

My dogs get almost no hot spots. When a hot spot does occur, I find dabbing it with bag balm takes care of things quite promptly.

Lisa Allen

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BERNER-L Digest 1832

Subject: hot spot info & home treatments (long) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:55:17 -0500 From: Vickie Buchanan To: Berner-l CC: donnahedin@home.com

Donna,

Here are my favorite hot spot remedies followed by some stuff I copied from the net.

I've had best results personally with a product called Neo-Predef powder that I get from my vet after seeing it highly recomended by vets online. I keep it on hand now. I think the advantage of this stuff is the powder form. It just sticks where it's needed ( to the ooze). I also wash the hot spot several times a day and I apply the powder afterward. And I reapply whenever it shows any wetness. In case you're interested, the label says, Neo-Predef, with Tetracaine powder: neomycin sulfate, isoflupredone acetate, tetracaine HCI.

I've also had good results just from washing the hot spot 3 to 10 times a day (whenever it's oozing) and drying it THOROUGHLY with my high powered dog blow drier, the kind used for show grooming. This can take quite a while (15-30 minutes) with a really juicy spot. After the washing and drying it takes a while for it to start oozing again, and it takes longer to start oozing again each time until it's completely dry within 1-3 days. I use the Neo-Predef if I don't have the time to dedicate to spending half the day washing and drying hot spots.

I don't know if either of these would work on a really bad hot spot like you described. Try to treat them while they're still small. If your dog is prone I'd investigate ANY licking or knawing. Obviously with the washing, you have to be able to get the dog to cooperate to let you wash and dry it.

One big advantage of these is that you don't have to clip the surrounding hair for a minor hot spot, although they seem to heal faster if you do. If I've just blown a lot of money on show entries I try to avoid cutting off noticable hair that won't grow back in time. The blow drier tends to make the fur lay down away from the hot spot.

Vickie Buchanan Racine, WI _______________________________

Here's a bunch of hot spot information from the Golden Retriever page on the net. I've tried some of these remedies, with varying results.

HOT SPOTS-Acute Moist Dermatitis

contributed by John Macdonald-Cuordha Goldens Email: cuordha@chebucto.ns.ca

"This disorder is caused by self induced trauma as the patient bites, rubs, or scratches at a part of its body in an attempt to alleviate some pain or itch. The majority of cases are complications of flea bite hypersensitivity, but allergic skin diseases, other ectoparasites, anal sac problems, inflammations such as otitis externa (inflamed ears), foreign bodies in the coat, irritant substances, dirty unkempt coats, psychoses and painful musculoskeletal disorders may be underlying causes. Owners usually believe that some factor producing a diet that is too rich may create the problem, but only a severe, essential fatty acid deficiency has been shown to be a cause. These factors initiate the itch-scratch cycle. The intense trauma produces sever large lesions in a few hours. Animal particularly disposed to this problems are those with a heavy coat that has a dense undercoat, such as Golden and Labrador Retrievers, German Shepherds, Collies and St. Bernards. The problem is much more common in hot humid weather and may have something to do with lack of ventilation in the coat. A typical lesion is red, moist and oozing. There is a crust of proteinaceous exudate in the center of the area surrounded by a halo of red skin. The hair is lost from the area, but the margins are sharply defined from the surrounding normal skin and hair. The lesion progresses rapidly if appropriate therapy is not started at once. Much pain is associated with the local area, and this may eventually deter the animal from further trauma. Lesions are often located in close proximity to the primary painful process, i.e., near infected ears, anal sacs and flea bites on the rump.

A study of the type of bacteria found in lesions of pyotraumatic dermatitis reveals multiple organisms, with Staphyloccus intermedius being the most common. It also showed that the St. Bernard and Golden Retriever dogs tended to have a deeper pus producing infection. Diagnosis is made by the history of acute onset, the physical appearance, and the association with a more or less primary cause. If the condition is persistent or recurrent, consider bacterial hair follicle inflammation, fungal infections, demodex infections, yeast infections or neoplasia (lymphosarcoma or sweat gland carcinoma) as differential diagnoses. True pyotraumatic dermatitis is a relatively flat, eroded to ulcerated lesion. Lesions that are thickened. plaque like and bordered by papules (bumps) and or pustules should always suggest a primary eruptive process, especially a staphylococcal infection

Therapy is effective if applied promptly and vigorously. Sedation or anesthesia is usually needed to allow thorough cleansing of the area. Cleansing is the first and most important step in local therapy. The hair is clipped away from the lesion and the skin is thoroughly cleaned with a mild antiseptic solution or scrub such as povidone-iodine. A single application of 5% tannic acid and 5% salicylic acid in 70% alcohol is used as an astringent. This can be followed by wet soaks with 5% aluminum acetate (Domeboro solution) applied three or four times daily for 10 minutes each time. This action is drying, astringent and antiseptic. Topical application of antibiotic cream three times daily is useful. Five days of systemic corticosteroids in anti-inflammatory doses (prednisolone 1.1 mg/kg SID) is useful in alleviating the pruritis, pain and local inflammation. As the lesion becomes dry and crusted, topical medication should be changed to softening creams and emollients. At the time of the initial treatment, it is most important to find the predisposing factor and eliminate or modify it to stop the patient's reflex self-trauma. The treatment to accomplish this varies, depending on the primary cause.

Clients always clamor for ways to prevent future lesions, since some unfortunate dogs may have repeated problems. There is no simple means of prevention. However, constant attention to grooming, hygiene, baths and parasite control and periodic cleaning of the ears and anal sacs will help. Owners should be particularly vigilant during periods of hot, humid weather. Although diet is often suggested as a cause, except for severe fatty acid deficiency or food hypersensitivity this has never been proven."

The above article was taken from "Small Animal Dermatology, Fourth edition and was authored by Muller, Kirk and Scott. ------------------------- Following are a number of hot spot remedies which have been successfully used. These remedies were all submitted by various members of the Golden-L list.

Shave the hair from the area and apply hydrogen peroxide (first time only; H2O2 will kill new cells as well as bacteria and other nasties), then Sulfodene, an amber liquid that smells yucky. Apply the Sulfodene twice a day until the hot spot heals. Put the dog in an E-collar (I call it an Easter bonnet) to keep the dog from licking or biting at the sore.

Brew a regular Lipton tea bag in about 3 ounces of water in the Microwave for about 10 minutes. Take the teabag and when it is still very warm but not hot enough to burn, apply it to the hot spot. Keep applying the tea bag for about 15 minutes, Repeat application about 4 or 5 times a day. The warmth of the tea bag soothes the pain. After the second application, there was an indication of the drying effect of the tannic acid in the tea. The principle behind this is the combined warmth and the drying agent of the tannic acid in the tea leaves.

Tea Tree Oil (or Melaleuca Oil) is GREAT stuff. I use it for hot spots and for a million things on humans as well. It is antibacterial, antifungal, penetrates below the surface of the skin, soothes the skin (try it on a burn-it's great) taking the pain/itch away instantly, is slightly drying (great for hot spots) and TASTES AWFUL. I haven't found a dog that will lick a spot with Melaleuca oil on it yet.

There is a product put out by Farnham Labs. called Blue Lotion Wound Dressing and Antiseptic and is used for treatment of sores on horses. If you catch the hot spot in its early stages when it is still smaller than a dime, application of Blue Lotion three times a day will usually have it dried up in two days and scabbed over. Anything bigger than this requires something else.

Here's my favorite hot spot remedy. I clip off the hair, clean the area with peroxide, and then spray on Terra Cortril spray, available from Foster & Smith. That spray will usually clear it up in a couple of days. Also, at least for my guys, it must not taste very palatable, because they never try to lick the area once I spray it on.

I've had good luck packing the hot spot with Gold Bond Powder, provided it's a small hot spot and I've caught it early.

I have three goldens and live in South Florida. With our heat and humidity we are hot spot experts. 'Mineral Ice' works very well to dry them up within a day or two. In many cases they are dry overnight. It does help to trim the fur first to air it out and get better coverage.

I've been told to clip the fur and apply a solution of betadine and water to the area once a day. This has worked successfully with my current foster dog who has extensive hot spots on his back and stomach. He is also on antibiotics.

For hot spots I like the Gentocin spray. I also trim the hair around it. If I catch it soon enough, Gentocin also seems to help the rather frequent outbreaks of Staph on her belly (allergy-related). It has saved us from putting her on systemic antibiotics this winter while we have been giving her allergy shots.

Shave the affected area so the air can get at it, clean it with peroxide and then use a topical antibiotic powder such as Eye and Wound Powder. Still another treatment I've heard of is to put Desenex foot powder on the hot spot. Sounds crazy but Desenex is a zinc based compound and has good drying properties. Sounds to me like it would be good for small spots but when we get to the large ones the itch drives the poor dog crazy and good old Cortisone comes to the rescue to relieve the itch and then I would get my vet to prescribe

One last suggestion is to give the hot spot a thorough cleaning , remove the hair from around it and apply Nu-Skin to it.

To summarize all of the suggestions, first isolate the spot by removing the hair, clean it thoroughly with hydrogen peroxide, and apply the treatment of choice - Gentocin spray, Terr- Cotril, or whatever. The treatment should ideally contain antibiotic and a drying agent. For severe hot spots cortisone is recommended to remove the severe itching.

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BERNER-L Digest 1833

Subject: Re: Hot Spots Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:16:32 -0400 From: Heather Grob To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List

Ouch, poor Max. I have heard that if the hot spots are allergy related, he may outgrow them. We battled hot spots last year around this time, but are so far so good even though allergy season is much worse this year. Then again, we don't have all those nasty biting bugs yet either, and I've heard they can be responsible too. Some other posting made me wonder if maybe hot spots were related to immunization shots, but I've never gone back to look at the vet records.

Our limited experience has been that any oozing only gets worse, so we had no choice but "the whole treatment" -- shave, cortisone, antibiotics, spray and even the dreaded lampshade. After doing that a few times and having a very silly looking Berner, we got some advice on prevention from our breeder Carole Lingley and this list. Sometimes we have been able to prevent red spots from getting bigger by using Gold Bond, but once the spots ooze, we're sunk. So, the key is to prevent them from getting big and itchy, whereupon the dog will scratch, lick, and get them infected.

We have done well by keeping Kate relatively clean and very dry! We inspect her coat daily. We go crazy brushing out dead hair this time of year because that can trap moisture. We always dry her off after swimming and we never let her sit or lie on wet fur. We also keep her out of a local stream that I found out was polluted with all kinds of industrial runoff and human feces. We try to keep her from rolling in feces (If she does, we bathe her right away). .Sometimes she even gets mini-baths on her rump to keep certain prone areas clean. We use Gold Bond, but it is important to apply that when she is dry and has no oozing sores. We did not change her food. Who knows what caused the spots, but we now have a rather fastidious approach that has worked so far. Knock on wood...

Some people I know give their Shephards oral and small doses of Benedryl. I haven't but wonder if a vet on the list might comment on the safety of doing that ?

Heather, Marc and Kate Silver Spring, MD

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Subject: puppy biting/hot spots Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:02:20 -0700 From: "mark and lisa" To:

I have found with puppies you have to be more stern than an adult-the adults I use more praise than correction. While walking the pup, a firm pull of the leash and "off!" to get him down. Once he is down, pet,pet,pet and praise or little goody. Also, never encourage pup to come up on you-ignore this and walk away. when he comes over and sits or stands where he belongs lots of praise. Remember this dog will eventually be big enough to knock you down. On hot spots, we have always used a betadine soln wash, and either neomyicin powder(vets use this for ear crops) or diaper creme like desitin. The zinc in it is very comforting and anti-inflammatory and the creme works as a moisture barrier which helps for those tight areas where skin is touching/sticking to skin. Ideally, the betadine with the hair clipped away. It is drying and antiseptic and doesn't burn. Don't be afraid of the color, it will not stain fur, but can stain clothing! Lisa Higham pudroe@earthlink.net

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Subject: Re: Hot Spots Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:12:16 EDT From: MotownYoda@aol.com To: berner-l@prairienet.org

To the best of my recollection, although maybe things have improved over the years, allergy shots only work on something like 30% of the dogs on whom they are tried. Allergy testing for dogs can be done via skin testing. I think there is also a blood test to test for allergies but I cannot remember for certain. A well-respected canine allergist, Dr. Stephen White, I believe his name is, used to be at Tufts and is now at, I believe, Colorado State University. What works best for me for doggy hot spots, after trying many remedies over the years, is to shave the hair from the hot spot area so it is exposed to the air and smear the area with Bag Balm. Not the worst hotspot I have ever seen, but certainly the most troublesome to treat due to the natural moistness of the area, was a hot spot that developed, many years ago, next to, of all places, Jorda's vulva; fortunately, she is one very cooperative doggy!

Lisa Allen

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Subject: Hot spots & allergy injections Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:23:27 -0500 From: Meg Hawkins To: "'HEDIN DONNA'" ,

Hi, We've had many, many hot spots. I got tired of going to the vet & getting prescription after prescription for antibiotics. The first vet thought they may be due to an allergy to staph (the bacteria causing the hotspot) so that any time Toby's skin was broken (like by a flea bite) he'd get a full-blown hot spot. Eventually we tried staph lysate injections, basically an allergy shot against staph. It took several months, with concurrent antibiotics for part of the time, but I really think they worked. Our vet didn't have a lot of experience w/allergy shots, though, and didn't know what sort of schedule to keep him on after our success. After 1 year without shots, the hot spots returned w/ a vengeance.

I tried to keep up w/ them at home with some success, but as soon as one cleared, another started. Finally, I took Toby to a veterinary allergist. He did allergy testing ($$$) and determined Toby is indeed allergic to staph and several grasses. He prepared material for injections and a schedule for giving them. This was several months ago, and we have now gotten to the maintenance dose of injections, one every 2 weeks. These can be given at home. So far, so good...we're not out of the woods...but if a shot every couple weeks is all it takes to help keep Toby well, I figure it's money well spent. If this works, he'll be on this maintenance schedule for the rest of his life.

The allergist also recommended frequent baths with benzoyl peroxide shampoo ( I used a different medicated shampoo I already had), supplements for skin (like Gold Caps), and flea/tick prevention.

I really recommend seeing a veterinary dermatologist/allergist, as the local vet may not have enough experience in testing and determining dosage schedules.

Good luck, I know how tough it is.

Meg & Toby In Texas

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BERNER-L Digest 1835

Subject: Hot Spots Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:13:19 -0700 From: "Ruth Reynolds " To: "Berner-L"

Have any readers who have experienced recurrent (for years) hot spots on particular dogs, researched the family lines for other individuals with these same problems? I'm wondering if a networking of owners of dogs who may have experienced the same things may render more useful treatment clues to get to the root of the problem in individual families of dogs. Probably the best place to look for help first is with the affected dog's breeder.

I have seen my share of hot spots in my day and have made these generalizations about them in my own dogs

1) Each dog is an individual and as such needs nutrition targeted for its optimal health 2) Addressing diet (often eliminating extras and sticking with the mainstay diet) helps those with tendencies to hot spots 3) COMBING through the undercoat on my dogs is very time consuming and offers optimal conditions for the skin as opposed to brushing. 4) Use of injectible steroids, though sometimes necessary to relieve discomfort, seems to leave "residue" in the body and another flare up can be expected 5) Keeping a hot spot "clean" and DRY EARLY on in its development often precludes the need for steroids. Many past posts have included remedies including, betadyne scrubs, chlorhexidine scrubs, domboro solution soaks, brewed teabag poultice, medicated powders, boric acid wash or powder and many others. 6) Some hot spots are best resolved by allowing them to run their course without injectible steroid intervention....keeping the area as clean and dry as possible. These particular kinds of spots seem to run their course regardless of medical intervention. They are very deep and involve many, many dermal layers. These types I feel are symptoms of a detoxing of some harmful agent in the dog's body...could be vaccinosis or over supplementation or allergic response to likely something the dog ingests routinely. One of my dogs cannot tolerate mineral supplementation in the most minute degree....NO extra supplementation for this girl is the way to go. 7) LONG (4-6 weeks) course of antibiotics for Staph infections in dogs with recurrent problems seems to finally KNOCK it out....short (3 week courses) were ineffective with chronic staph sufferers amongst my dogs in the past. 8) Trimethoprim Sulfa, though it has a reputation as an immuno suppressive antibiotic, seemed to work extremely well in individuals who had been unresponsive to other antibiotics with regard to staph infections. 9) Products like MSM and EFA supplements are often helpful for animals with chronic staph infections 10) Dynamite Showdown is also very helpful for some dogs with chronic skin infections 11) And last but not least...selection for healthy skin in breeding animals is essential in my dogs who are exposed to many immune system challenges in this agricultural region of the southern US.

Although wheat is often labeled a culprit allergen for dogs in general , it is thought by some of us that it is not the actual wheat that causes some dogs' problems, but rather the pesticides and preservatives used on the wheat. My dogs all eat a commercially prepared food containing wheat in three different forms and seem to do very well on it. For dogs from my breeding program, wheat from sources suitable for human consumption are not discouraged as one grain source in the dogs' diets.

Hope some of this may be of help to someone in management of a chronic hot spot dog/family of dogs.

Ruth Reynolds RAR@PHONL.com Pioneer Bernese Greenwood, FL USA http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/rar

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BERNER-L Digest 1836

Subject: re: hotspots (long0 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:15:50 -0700 From: "Lisa Baldwin" To: "berner-l"

since hotspots are caused by the dog going after some irritant, the prevention is to attempt to discover the irritant.

common causes are: (1)fleas (especially suspicious on the rear half of the dog), (2) other external parasites, (3) incomplete rinsing of shampoo, (4) allergies, (5) if over the joint area, joint problems & arthritis.

the success rate of allergens (the injection treatment for inhaled allergies) varies depending on breed and what the dog is allergic to. for certain breed and allergy combinations the success rate is about 80%. the most difficult allergens to hyposensitize your dog to are molds. i'm not sure how difficult bernese are to desensitize.

on food allergies, your best option is still the home cooked elimination diet as outlined by melissa. the boss has had several animals do well on the homecooked and fall apart on the commercial diet. that said, obviously the elimination diet is not balanced and this is usually not recommended for puppies. after a successful diet trial, you can try a similarly formulated commercial diet or balance your homecooked. there is a new alternative to elimination diets. in these diets, the manufacturer uses a special process that breaks down the proteins to a size that, in theory, makes them unrecognizable to the immune system. there are two of these diets for dogs. one is called exclude. the other one (not currently available, but supposed to be back on the market soon) is purina ha.

staph vaccine (staphage lysate) can be very helpful to a dog that is sensitive to the staph organism.

if your dog has skin infections, they need to be treated (thus the clavamox you mentioned). many vets will do a skin cytology to determine which organisms are growing on the skin so that they can recommend appropriate therapy. many dogs get yeast infections (malassezia ?sp) along with the bacterial infections and these need to be treated as well. the byproducts of the yeast organism can cause a lot of itch.

using medicated shampoos, such as your benzoyl peroxide shampoo, can be very helpful in maintaining a dog with skin problems. however, it is hard to bathe a bernese weekly. check with your veterinarian for the correct medicated shampoo for your dog's condition. there are several very good antimicrobial shampoos out now. you should consider using a moisturizing after rinse or conditioner with medicated shampoos, since they can be drying to the skin. there are some medicated leave on conditioners available that work very well.

antihistamines in general don't work as well on dogs as people, but for some dogs with allergies they do offer relief. the ones i have seen used are hydroxyxine, diphenhydramine (benadryl), chlorpheniramine, and amitriptyline. consult your veterinarian for recommendations and dosage. some are available over the counter.

if you should decide to seek a referral to a veterinary dermatologist, and your regular veterinarian thinks that your dog may need skin testing, your dog will need to be off all steroids for 4-6 weeks and all antihistamines and topicals for at least 2 weeks. and after what we had today, don't bathe your dog for a week before your appointment, we need the stinky dog!

sorry this got so long.

lisa baldwin (dickens & bark) seattle, wa lisa@shiretech.com

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BERNER-L Digest 1851

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:59:08 -0400 From: THOMAS SLIDER To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List Subject: Hot Spots Tip

Since we are in the spring of the year, I have noticed that my dogs are shedding more and love to roll in the grass. To help them and try and avoid hot spots, I blow-dry them with the Air Force Commander and brush at the same time. I have noticed they tend to get dandruff and mats more easily this time of the year and feel this 'cleaning' helps clean their skin. Do this outside as you would be amazed at the amount of hair and dust that comes off. I have never been bothered with hot spots (knock on wood) on my dogs. This also lets you check their skin for ticks, sores or lumps. They love it and look great afterwards....more than I can say for me!!! :-o Also find if they get wet, to dry them as soon as possible, especially down to the skin. Moist, wet fur is a breeding bed for all kinds of problems and keeping on top of good grooming habits may help alleviate any future problems. They get this 'treatment' about every 3 days and when the hose water gets warmer, they will get a good scrubbing with a good shampoo. Luckily I have only 3 Berners and 1 Golden to groom, but they all look good, smell clean and are happy babies!!! Just a thought, especially for new owners of long-coated dogs. Carol Slider in NC

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BERNER-L Digest 1912

Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:22:19 -0700 Subject: hotspots From: "Lisa Baldwin" To: "berner-l"

since you say that the hotspots are only on his chest, i wonder whether he has metal tags on his collar? my allergic disaster hound (the mixed breed) developed a metal sensitivity last year and had a constant sticky infected spot on his chest. we cleared the infections (bacterial and yeast) and i made him a collar out of nylon fabric with plastic fasteners and a plastic id tag threaded on.

try removing any metal parts, especially buckles and tags from the affected area, and see whether the infection clears up and remains clear.

lisa baldwin (dickens & bark) seattle, wa lisa@shiretech.com

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From: MotownYoda@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:23:55 EDT Subject: Re: Hot Spots -- Remedy anyone?? To: eapackman@email.msn.com CC: berner-l@prairienet.org

For hot spots, I highly recommend Bag Balm. I have had great success with this product.

Lisa Allen

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BERNER-L Digest 1913

From: "ANNE IVERSEN" To: "Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List" Subject: Hot Spots Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:04:31 +0200

Hi,

I found that Hot Spots occour when the dogs immunedefense are down (after heat, after infection etc.) or from allergy. If you discover it right away you could normally cure it yourself: Shave the area around the spot so it`s free from fur, then put on "Johnsons Baby-powder" several times a day - 8-10 times - the trick is to keep the spot compleately dry at all times - so do not wash the spot!! Try to keep the dog from scratching the spot. In 3-4 days it`s dried out at the skin is fine again. However if it`s a severe spot or if it`s in the face you`ll need something stronger - and antibiotica.

Anne

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Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:13:01 -0500 To: berner-l@prairienet.org From: bernese2@pacbell.net (by way of Lindman & Goffstein ) Subject: Hot Spot Remedy

I use Gold Bond Medicated Powder, dries those ugly, sticky hotspots right up... You can get Gold Bond at just about any store. Have also heard some clients say "Bag Balm" works great too... As with any home remedy, if you don't see improvement within a couple of days, please call your Vet......

Peggy McQueary Reg. Vet Tech Thundering Pines Bernese Sacramento, Calif...

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BERNER-L Digest 2010

From: JENNYAKN@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 16:13:44 EDT Subject: Re: zoom groom & wonder dust To: berner-l@prairienet.org

Zoom grooms are also available at and tack shop or through horse supply catalogs. They are the same product made by the same company. I think I paid $4 for mine (petsmart was about $8) .

Also, I had been having trouble with hot spots on Hamlin. His first one required 20 days of expensive antibiotics, daily baths, and a $206 vet bill.

When he got the second, I shaved it, washed it, and tried a little wonder dust from the feed store, and it healed in a couple days. Wonder dust comes in a powder or spray form, I only use the powder. It is made to dry out sores on horses and does a great job. One jar of powder will last forever and costs about $4.25.

From now on I will shop the horse places for dog suipplies first.

Jennifer, Emily (always healthy), and Hamlin (keeping the vet in business)

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BERNER-L Digest 2051

From: "Patricia Tackett" To: berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Heat/Hot spots/Myths Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:07:52 GMT

Kudoos to Susan A. for posting such a valid post concerning the issues of heat, hot spots, myths about the South (including Texas)

I have only had 3 Berners since 1986. My first girl did fine outdoors, she had covered shade (from Shade cloth), covered patio (where her and Grt Pyr stayed the most) and a Walters watering pan (has a float so constantly kept full as the dogs drank) and last but not least a "Dig Dirt spot" made of sand mixed with regular soil which was raked and watered daily. Rosie, my second BMD, has lived partially outside early years and really prefers being outside (I have to bribe her to come in) Ace has had luxury of being indoors almost from day one so he always wants to be in with me. I currently live in a subdivision off a busy street where kids walk by, ride their bicycles, play in the street. Therefore I keep my guys inside to keep them from being teased or getting into a frenzy trying to bark and chase at the children (the Sheltie is the worst on this)

Ace had staph problems as a youngster and so I tend to bathe him with betadine in the shampoos. I tend to use Oatmeal, Citrus-Plus type shampoos to help with the allergies both of my Berners seem to suffer from. Overall they do well here in Texas. Their coats are in great shape, I don't supplement them any except for training treats VBG. Since my guys stay inside I have been lucky the past few years and not had many hotspots. I try and get a headstart on any problems of the skin before having to resort to Vets. and his wanting to shave the areas. Knock on wood that has helped control the issue of hotspots for me and my dogs.

I think the key to any dog being kept outside is starting them out early in the year so they build up tolerance to the heat. My Rosie loves to lay on the patio porch inside her Igloo doghouse so she must be comfortable. I do believe any sudden change of environment -- dogs used to AC and then being left outside for extended time could be harmful to the animals. As most senarios with our animals common sense must rule -- you know your animals -- what they do well on (food,supplements) Just keep that in mind when you think of other areas of the country. Our dogs do well here in Texas, most do have the luxury of staying inside with cold AC blowing down their backs.

Pat Tackett Rosie (8), Ace(5.8), Molly (sheltie) Balch Springs, TX where it has been predicted to be 102 today

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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:37:51 -0700 From: Kathy Mihalek To: Berner-l@prairienet.org Subject: Hot spots

I've also have had several hots spots to deal with, I swear by Hibicleanse anti-bact. skin cleanser. And if caught early enough an antibiotic tab. also helps clear them up in a hurry. I'm really grateful that lately the dogs haven't had any. I'm wondering if any one else thinks that hot spots can be related to their diet? It seems to me, with a little higher fat content, I have not only fewer hots spots, but fewer skin problems altogether. Kathy Mihalek Fulton, NY

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BERNER-L Digest 2138

Subject: Re: Hot Spot Remedies Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:05:47 -0600 From: "Gwyndean Candelaria" To: berner-l@prairienet.org

This is the list I have compile so far from the archives and recent posts for the bernerbones list, Pat asked me to post to the L so she could put it in with the others.

Dino

Here are some common things to help hotspots to heal WITHOUT suppressing the immune system:

Apply a cool slice or cucumber to the area. Let the dog eat it when it warms up - it works well on the outside as well as on the inside.

Brew a cup of chamomile tea, leaving the teabag in the cup to cool. When tea is cool, use teabag to apply the tea to the area. Let dog drink tea - it works to soothe on the outside (the tannic acid in teas also is an astringent) and calms them when they drink it.

Shave the area around the hotspot to get air to it and help it dry.

Gold Bond Powder - helps dry up the spots, and dogs don't like to lick it off.

Aloe Vera gel, freshly squeezed from the plant, helps to calm and heal. It can be ingested as well to work on the inside.

Internally, echinacea, Vitamin C, goldenseal, and garlic all help to boost the immune system.

Sometimes a hotspot is indicative of a chiropractic problem. An appointment with a certified chiropractor can often help.

Here's a recipe to make up and store in the fridge - 1/2 cup very strong tea, 1 cup rubbing alcohol, and 2 crushed aspirin. Stir this up and soak the hotspot with it several times a day until gone.

Mix equal parts extra virgin olive oil and oil of thyme. Apply to the hot spot with a cotton ball. This will stop itching and prevent infection.

Sprinkle goldenseal powder on the animal's food and in the water. DO not use too much or for more than 7 days on, 5 days off. You can also apply the goldenseal root to the hotspot, just make a weak tea out of it. Is perfectly fine if it is licked off.

Put a large handful of spearmint or peppermint leaves in a glass container and cover with distilled white vinegar. Allow to steep at room temp for 2 weeks. Shake from time to time. Strain. Apply the liquid to any sore on the animal and to clean wounds; this also stops itching and allows wounds to heal.

Apply Willard Water to the hotspot.

Apply raw honey to the hotspot.

Straight hydrogen peroxide

cornstarch/boric acid Mix it 1/2 and 1/2. if you notice one coming on early enough cornstarch will cure it so fast that no hair falls out. I think the boric acid helps if one really get going.

treat the smaller hotspots with calendula tincture - 10 drops in 1/4 cup of distilled water. If it is very ouchy - I add 10 drops of hypericum tincture into that mix.

Basetrecin (spelling??) ointment(Dino's note-I don't know what this one is)

Draw, an equine solution, made by Liquid Needle. Mix it half and half with water and apply several times a day. Normally, it will dry up the hot spot in a day. If it persists use a straight solution, rather than a diluted one.

For recurring and stress hotspots:

rescue remedy clematis

500 mg milk thistle to support the liver

Skin saving cocktail a few weeks before her heatcycle - maybe her supply of zinc is not good at this time due to increased hormones. Maybe also increase her B vitamins and C - as heatcycles are stressful.

For quicker hair growth after hotspots:

Dont know if it works on dogs, but always worked on my horses, A & D ointment, always put their hair back on quick

EQyss MEGA Tek, which is a coat rebuilder and accelerates hair regrowth. It seemed to help. I ordered it from REVIVAL 1-800-786-4751. They have a web page, which I haven't visited, since I have their big catalog-- www.revivalanimal.com.

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BERNER-L Digest 2245

Subject: Re: Hot Spot Help Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:45:16 EST From: Annes4@aol.com To: jennymccune@imt.net CC: berner-l@prairienet.org

In a message dated 12/13/99 12:33:38 AM Central Standard Time, jennymccune@imt.net writes:

<< Any advice on what to put on the hot spot to help clear it up AND repel the other dogs? >>

We've had good success with a combination treatment of a light spray of "Listerine" original mouthwash, full strength, followed by a dusting of "Gold Bond" medicated powder two or three times a day. I just pour a little Listerine in an empty spray bottle to use it. This way, I don't have to physically touch (and probably cause pain) to an already irritated skin. If there is a lot of hair contacting the moisture of the "hot spot", I would trim away what I could to keep the area open to the air.

Anne Copeland, Tyval TDX, HIC, TDI/CGC (the 10 yr. old Rott'n one) and Flash (our 5 yr. old Berner boy) NE ILL Annes4@aol.com BMDCA 2000 Specialty Hotel Liason Chair

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BERNER-L Digest 2386

Subject: Re: Dreaded Hotspot!!!! Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 10:49:00 -0600 From: Lindman & Goffstein To: jandcslider@blueridge.net CC: berner-l@prairienet.org

Hi Carol, My 10 year old Berner gets hot spots easily as she is a dog with multiple allergies. Now that her allergies are better controlled with diet she is better. In our experience Neo-Predef powder(by Upjohn) - prescription item from vet works the best. If I do not have any on hand, I use Lotrimin Powder until I get the Neo-Predef powder. Sometimes if you get the spot early the Lotrimin powder works just fine and it is a product most drug stores carry and is available now without a prescription. Lotrimin has some antibacterial effect plus the powder base drys the hot spot.

Have a lovely spring, Barb Lindman, human dermatologist, and her muddy Berner girls of Iowa

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BERNER-L Digest 2387

Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 23:07:28 -0500 From: "Jean C. Coker" To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List CC: THOMAS SLIDER Subject: Re: That Dreaded Hot Spot

Gabby -

We must be Berners of a feather... make that fur ... because I came down with my first hot spot today (well over the past few days) and my mom hasn't located the helpful hints from the L either ....

but my older sister, (golden retriever) Amber just had one a couple of weeks ago and it was a doozie. After carefully washing it with warm salt water for 1/2 hour and trying to dry it with a cool hairdryer to stop it oozing, my mom cleaned it with betadine and then sprinkled it with cayanne pepper. Within a few hours the huge spot was dry, even around the edges - it didnt' ooze anymore, Amber never ever touched it again, and it healed so quickly we were all amazed. Amber smelled a little funny, but we didn't laugh.

Mom is about to sprinkle some on me. It may burn, but I'm a big girl and it will stop the itch. Mom and her friend, Day, have been reading about how cayanne pepper heals all sorts of wounds. So here goes!!!

Hope you're better soon -

Haley ;o) and Bridger :0) (I'm bigger and braver, but I'm glad I'm not the one with the hot spot! Whew!!)

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BERNER-L Digest 2388

Subject: Hot Spots Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 06:17:08 EST From: Bernerpals@aol.com To: berner-l@prairienet.org

For me, the most valuable tool against the dredded hot spot is an electric grooming clipper to clear the hair from the area. Assuming it needs cleaning, use diluted Nolvasan or Betadine, use a cool hair dryer and then apply one of the following: 1. Listerine - yes, Listerine. It doesn't sting, has antibacterial properties and dries it up 2. Sulfodene - can be purchased on line through Petopia.com..drys it up 3. For minor, just beginning spots try Gold Bond Powder 4. From the Bernerblatt an Old Swiss Remedy which I haven't tried yet Place 2 tea bags in a large coffee/tea cup Fill half full with boiling water. Let steep for 1 hour Sqeeze out tea bags in solution and remove. Add 3 basic aspirin (not Tylenol or ibuprophen or coated aspirin) and stir Fill cup with rubbing alcohol Place this solution in a spray bottle Clean with Betadine first, spray the solution or dab on with botton balls, then dry the area with a cool hair dryer Repeat 4 times a day I just had my Berner, Hannah, at the dermatologist for allergy related hot spots and he told me I should not use any salves or ointments (which I had been) because they hold in the infection rather than letting it breathe and dry out.

Please keep those ideas coming because 'tis the season ! Marianne

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Subject: Re: Hot Spots Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 07:14:15 -0800 From: Susan Ablon Organization: Gweebarra BMD To: Bernerpals@aol.com, berner-l References: 1

Bernerpals@aol.com wrote:

I just had my Berner, Hannah, at the dermatologist for allergy related hot > spots and he told me I should not use any salves or ointments (which I had > been) because they hold in the infection rather than letting it breathe and > dry out.

my understanding has always been you do not want to use those salves or ointments that are oil based such as panalog. These are the ones that do not allow the wound to dry out.

Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara

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BERNER-L Digest 2666

Subject: hot spots Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 07:48:59 EDT From: Bernerpals@aol.com To: berner-l@prairienet.org, JLewis5276@aol.com

I have a hot spot kit at the ready. However, I do not hesitate to take my dogs to the Vet at the first sign that the hot spot is getting serious. My kit includes: Nolvasam (from the Vet for cleaning), Gold Bond Medicated powder (for pink belly or minor red spots), Sulfadene and Listerine (both used as drying agents) but THE most important item in my kit is a cordless clipper. At the first sign of a hot spot or sore, I shave the area close to the skin to get air to the area and keep the hair from matting down around the sore. This has saved my guys repeatedly. Marianne, Hannah, Layla & Dylan

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BERNER-L Digest 2667

Subject: Re Hot Spots Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:32:15 -0700 From: "Melodie Grabner" To: "Berner-l"

This subject has been around a long time on the golden lists and this new product has just been discovered. I am passing on the information as it is made in Canada. It is called Cool Spot and the Golden people swear by it. The web site is: http://www.coolspot2000.com/canine.htm

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BERNER-L Digest 3133

Subject: Re: Need a hot spot remedy... Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 06:47:53 EDT From: BernerFolk@aol.com To: rlkinva@yahoo.com, berner-l@prairienet.org

In a message dated 5/9/2001 5:37:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rlkinva@yahoo.com writes:

I was told that it could have started from a bug bite not necessarily from the skin being wet, is that true?

~Yes. Many things can trigger a hot spot, including a bug bite. If your dog happens to be allergic to fleas, one bite can set off a chain reaction of nasty hot spots.

For you vet's and tech's out there, I like to know what you think about these ugly things.

Can I tell you what I think even if I'm not a vet tech?

If my dog gets a hot spot a couple of times in his life, I figure it's just that he stayed wet in one area or 'worked at' an odd bite. I wouldn't worry about it further.

If my dog gets hot spots repeatedly (several times a year), I'd try to determine the cause. Frequent hot spots are often due to allergies so I'd want to try to identify and control the trigger if possible and control the sensitivity if not.

So my question is what should I do? Does anyone out there have any remedies...

Following are some of the various things people use to help heal hot spots:

This from a people dermatologist: In our experience Neo-Predef powder(by Upjohn) - prescription item from vet works the best. If I do not have any on hand, I use Lotrimin Powder until I get the Neo-Predef powder. Sometimes if you get the spot early the Lotrimin powder works just fine and it is a product most drug stores carry and is available now without a prescription. Lotrimin has some antibacterial effect plus the powder base drys the hot spot. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Boric Acid (available at drug store) Corn Starch Mix equal parts of the above (such as 2 tablespoons each). Put this into a container with a lid, and shake the mixture well. Liberally apply the dry mixture (do not add water) to the hot spot using a clean make-up brush or a shaving brush. Repeat a couple times a day. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Treatment of choice is Caladryl lotion, spread on the spot.

Second treatment of choice, by the Emergency clinic, is Desinex foot powder spray. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Take 6 tea bags, 2 aspirin, 1/2 cup rubbing alcohol, 1 cup boiling water - soak until cool. I place this in a spray bottle and spray the area 4-5 times a day. Keep area clean and free of hair. Dry hot spot with hair dryer if needed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What has worked well for us, if we catch it right away, is to spray with full strength Listerine mouthwash followed by dusting with Gold Bond medicated powder. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I now use neosporin - and she stands there as I rub it in - and calmly walks away. She doesn't get many hot spots but this has cleared them up before they became a bigger problem - and since it doesn't burn or itch - she doesn't seem inclined to lick or rub it off. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ....and how long should I expect this thing to stick around?

Depends on how fast you can get the dog to leave it alone ;-/ Hot spots are largely 'created' by the dog working at a bothersome spot. That opens the door for infection by staph and other bacteria and the dog works at it more....it's a vicious circle. Once you eliminate the pain and itch (or physically keep the dog from chewing or scratching at it), the hot spot will clear quickly.

BTW- My preferred treatment is Panalog cream (prescription from the vet) and the tea/alcohol/aspirin brew.

-Sherri Venditti

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Subject: Juniper and Hot Spot Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 21:00:17 -0400 From: rose tierney To: berner-l@prairienet.org

Hi, Yes bug bites can cause hot spots, the commonest being the flea. It bites, jumps off and you don't necessarily think the dog has fleas but he is allergic to them. Usually the cat flea so check any resident kitties.

Drying after a bath, I hope you have a dog drier because towel drying and sun drying doesn't quite do the trick with heavy coated dogs. The Air Commodore is satisfactory for most owners and has two settings for high and low but the temperature is mild and will not overheat the skin as human driers tend too.

I find the best treatment for a hot spot is to clip the hair away from the site so the air can access and clean with hibitaine soap and pat dry with paper towel and then spray twice daily with Topagen. Topagen is a topical corticosteroid which quickly calms the hotspot and they heal very quickly. If they are too large and "oozy" then a course of antibiotics may be in order. Forget about trying to save the coat because it hampens healing and is going to fall out anyway. Sanitise your brushes and combs.

All the best.

Rose

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Subject: Hot Spots/Staff Infection Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:18:40 EDT From: KMTWHITT@aol.com To: ,

Hi Robin,

I have gone thru many years now of treating my 8 yr. old Berner girl, Magic, for staff infections. If the hot spot has small red bumps and is oozing serum, it could be staff vs. hot spot. We are pretty sure these bouts are the results of bug bites which she scratches and/or allergies.

If I catch them soon enough, I can usually treat the topically by clipping the area beyond the edges of the spot (if the serum gets on the surrounding hair, it will usually spread), cleaning it with hyrdrogen perioxide and then applying Panalog cream to it 2-3X a day. If it has already become full blown by the time I discover it, we usually put her on antibiotics.

I haven't had any experience with "regular" hot spots, and would have to guess the treatment would not be the same. Just wanted to share my (many) experiences with you. Hope it helps.

Karen Thoubboron Maibock Kennel Paradis Adin Magic, CGC (8 yr. old BMD) alias "The Princess" Maibock's Black Tie Affair, CGC (2 yr. old BMD) "Dozer Dog" and Black 'n Gold's Magic Alliance (5 mo. old BMD) - "Alli-oooooppps!!"

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BERNER-L Digest 3501

Subject: Re: Wet Eczema? Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:16:57 EST From: BernerFolk@aol.com To: wendy@sherwood17.freeserve.co.uk, berner-l@prairienet.org

In a message dated 12/6/2001 7:04:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, wendy@sherwood17.freeserve.co.uk writes:

Aimee, my 4 year old bitch has suddenly developed a large area of what > appears to be wet eczema, she has never had this before.

Hi Wendy,

What you describe is a classic hot spot. It starts with an itch, the dog works at it so in no time at all, it gets raw. At that point, it's a great place for staph and other bacteria to grow making matters worse. The dog scratches more and the hot spot grows in leaps and bounds.

The key is to stop the dog from scratching so the area can heal. Depending on the location, you can use a tee shirt, boxer shorts, an Elizabethan collar, or whatever other device you can come up with to keep Aimee and the other dogs from working at the spot.

Treatment is multifold, you want to stop bacterial growth, dry the area, and relieve the itch. There are many home remedies which help, I can send you a file of them separately if you like. Once a hot spot really takes hold, you may want to use a veterinary preparation. I like Panalog cream which contains both antibiotics to fight the bacteria and a steroid to soothe the area and reduce the itch. In severe cases, a course of oral steroids may be recommended by your vet to short-circuit the inflamation cycle.

There are a myriad of causes of hot spots. A common one is flea bite allergy. A dog allergic to flea bites can become horrendously itchy from a single bite. Other allergies can be a trigger as well. Another possible cause is an area staying damp after a bath or swim. I have a bitch with a very, very, thick, wooly, coat...the fur on the back of her neck will stay damp for a week if I don't blow it dry thoroughly. Sure enough, the only time in her 6 years she popped a hot spot, it was in the middle of that area, still damp days after a bath. The dark, damp, warm environment provided the perfect place for bacteria to multiply and start to itch.

-Sherri Venditti

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Subject: RE: Wet Eczema? Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:00:18 -0500 From: "Rose Tierney" To: "Wendy Sherwood" CC:

Hi Wendy, Sounds like your girl has a nasty "Hotspot" You have to trim the hair well back and clean with Hibitaine Soap and mop dry with paper towel.Then use a product called "Topagen" which is sprayed on twice daily, this is bought from the vet and is a corticosteroid spray. You may have similiar products in the UK. If the area is spreading fast and particularly moist then you will need to have the vet look at it and determine if a course of anti-biotics are necessary. Small hotspots can usually be cleared up at home but you will need a prescription for the spray. Anti-histamines can help with the itching and dosage is two capsules of Benedryl (or generic) three times daily for fully grown Berner. You will have to stop the scratching at the site either by fitting an elizabethan collar or fitting her up with a thick cotton T-Shirt, cut and file those toenails and put socks on her back feet!

Hotspots are caused by a variety of conditions and we see them here particularly during the warm humid months if the coat has got wet and not dried thoroughly, can also be because the dog is scratching an itch and introduce a strep bacillus to the area.

All the best.

Rose

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Subject: Wet Eczema? Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:13:04 EST From: KMTWHITT@aol.com To: ,

Hi Wendy,

It sounds like your girl has staff. The symptoms you described are VERY familar to me as my girl Magic has suffered from numerous bouts with staff infections. When I first discover it (and I'm getting better at catching it early), I shave the site making sure I go to where the edges are clean (no oozing bumps). If you don't get clean edges, it will only spread further as it is very infectious to the individual dog (but not other dogs). I then clean the sight using hydrogen perioxide (warning, this can bleach the dogs coat, but since I wasn't showing Magic, found this to be the most effective) to remove all built up serum. Lastly, I applied Panalog cream to the site. I clean and reapply the cream 3x a day. This treatment will usually work when you catch it early enough. Unfortunately, it sounds like your girl will also need a round of antibiotics and something to help with the itching to break the cycle since it has spread already.

Hope this helps.

Karen Thoubboron Maibock Kennel Paradis Adin Magic, CGC (81/2 yr. old BMD) - Magic alias "The Princess" Maibock's Black Tie Affair, CGC (21/2 yr. old BMD) – Bo alias "Dozer Dog" and Black 'n Gold's Magic Alliance (11 mos. old BMD) – Alli – alias "Alli-oooooppps!!"

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BERNER-L Digest 3722

Subject: Hot Spots - No Cost ( well LOW cost ) treatment Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:44:50 -0400 From: "Michael O'Hara, M.A." To: "Berner-L" ,

As a 20 year exhibitor of Berners I have had far too much experience with hot spots.

In my early years I allowed vets to shave my dog in order to "treat" the affected area.

I have had injections of Cortisone to assist in healing.

After many years I have changed my point of view.

A friend and I both took our Berners to the same vet at the same time for hot spots. His dog was shaved ... mine was not. Healing time was not different between our dogs.

As for medications sold by the vets.. I have stopped buying them and have switched to a home made remedy which costs NOTHING.. and works QUICKLY and effectively.

here is the recipe.

boil a cup of water 12 oz, 16oz .. and disolve 4 asparin in the hot water.

Add 4 tea bags to the boiling water and allow to steep until cool.

whatever amount of liquid you now have... add an equal amount of rubbing alcohol.

Yes, I said rubbing alcohol... it does not seem to affect my dogs (does not seem painful)

Apply with a cotton swab to the hot spot area several times a day.

I also like to bathe the hot spot area before applying the "treatment" . I use warm water and a disinfectanct soap and use a hair dryer to dry the area before applying the remedy.

When I recently obtained a puppy it had a hot spot. The breeder's vet insisted on shaving the pup and gave me $30 worth of meds. I did not use the meds ... used only the remedy and within 24 hours the hot spot had dryed completely.

So... give it a try.. it costs nothing ( well almost nothing ) but has no vet fee, med fees, and does not require shaving the dog's coat.

To reduce the damage from hotspots.. keep your eyes on your dogs and be alert for excessive licking ... look for WET spots on their coats when the come into the house.

A penney size spot this morning will be a bread plate spot by the end of the day. ! ! !

Michael O'Hara Berners since 1981

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Subject: Re: Hot Spots - No Cost ( well LOW cost ) treatment Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:46:45 -0400 From: "Laurie Montoya" To: "Berner-L" ,

Actually , this is a very good treatment ! I just use the tea bags steeped in warm water for awhile :-). I started using it for poison ivy , and it works beautifully on THAT , too ! The tea has tannic acid in it and will dry the affected area quickly. I have a golden x that gets hotspots in the summer , and Michael is right , it's healed over in a day. I keep treating it for a few days though. Sorry about the "me,too" ! Laurie Montoya mohican@innernet.net

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Subject: Re: Hot Spots - No Cost ( well LOW cost ) treatment Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:14:33 -0600 From: "tdominguez" To: "Berner-L"

Also watch out for the other dogs trying to help out!!

I used Willard Water .. it worked wonders for me with my first experience with hot spots. But I will keep this recipe handy.

Teresa Albuquerque, NM

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Subject: The easiest/best way to heal hot spots Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:13:49 EDT From: Brnrmom@aol.com To: berner-L@prairienet.org

Just make the dog leave it alone! This of course usually requires physcially preventing the dog from getting at the hot spot w/ something like a T-shirt or an Elizabethan collar for 3-4 days.

I also put Gold Bond powder on 2-3 times a day just to keep it dry and it will heal even faster. Sometimes Benadryl tablets can help decrease the itching if is bad, especially at night (50 mg every 4-6 hrs for a few daysfor a Berner sized dog.)

Simple and very effective.

Vilma Briggs, MD Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT and U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT

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Subject: Re: The easiest/best way to heal hot spots Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:32:37 -0400 From: "Sandie Hawkins" To:

Hi,

Your treatments do work and tea bags are great applied directly to sunburn also. As for Gold Bond, I found that it burned and was very painful to the dogs.

All that "cooking" is too much for me and I don't like applying moist treatments when you are trying to dry up the area.

Here is another tried and true cure for hotspots that you can just keep handy at home or in the van:

50% Cornstarch (this works alone in a pinch) 50% Boric Acid (powder) available off the shelf at Wal-Mart or any drug store.

Shake together and cover hotspot when it appears moist. Several times the first day, maybe needed only twice the second and they are usually dried up and healing. Looks yucky but just let it alone and you will see healthy skin in a few days. Clipping hair isn't necessary unless you catch it late and area is very weepy.

Sandie Hawkins

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Subject: Re: The easiest/best way to heal hot spots Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:10:18 EDT From: Brnrmom@aol.com To: sajan@intrepid.net CC: Berner-L@prairienet.org

In a message dated 4/12/2002 12:33:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sajan@intrepid.net writes:

As for Gold Bond, I found that it burned and was very painful to the > dogs.

Really? That's very strange. My husbands Goldens each always get hot spots several times a year (he does competative field training so the dogs swim and are out in the elements a lot) and the Gold Bond never bothers them in the slightest. Nor did it bother my Berners (who are both total wimps, even whining when I clean their ears!) when they have gotten hot spots. It almost seemd to feel soothing to them.

All that "cooking" is too much for me and I don't like applying > moist treatments when you are trying to dry up the area.

I agree with you there for sure. Key to human dermatology: "If it is wet, dry it. If it is dry, wet it. If that fails, use steroids."

Vilma

Vilma Briggs, MD (Kistner) Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT and U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT

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Subject: Re: The easiest/best way to heal hot spots Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:57:15 -0400 From: "Sandie Hawkins" CC:

Vilma,

I know others who have used Gold Bond with reactions and without but my guys were in obvious pain. It took me more than one try to be sure it was the powder. My thinking was that it hurt at first but as it healed it wouldn't be painful. I'm a slow learner I bought a huge container of it too

The cornstarch (it's in baby powder too for diaper rash right?) is soothing and boric acid must kill the bacteria. Anyway it works great.

There is always more than one way to fix a problem. I know those who like to use honey. Just too gooy for me.

Sandie

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BERNER-L Digest 3723

Subject: Re: Hot Spots - No Cost ( well LOW cost ) treatment Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:24:58 EDT From: BMDwags@aol.com To: berner-l@prairienet.org

Hi Everyone-

HB 101 liquid...It is a witchhazel concoction. Apply to the area 3 times daily after you have lightly cleansed the area with a disinfectant soap, rinsed and dried well. Works wonders...

Hot spot free...(knock on wood!) for 11 years!!! :0) Jennie Hoffnagle Glenmoore, PA

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BERNER-L Digest 3725

Subject: Re: Hot Spots Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:24:12 -0400 From: Pat Long & Paul Dangel To: Vistaplatz@aol.com, berner-L

Posted for Nancy:

Hi- Just thought I would add my 2 cents worth in on the hot spot remedies. I have used the water, tea bag, rubbing alcohol mix for years with good results. Because of the alcohol which has been added this solution dries very quickly. Another tip - (this is the expensive part, but less than a visit to the vet and more comfortable for you and your dog than an Elizabethan collar) - go to the drugstore and purchase a tiny bottle of Oil of Cloves (it only come in tiny bottles and your great-grandma used it for toothaches). Put it on the fur around the hot spot area - DO NOT get any on the spot itself as it really, really burns. The dogs hate the smell and especially the taste of it so if they decide to lick they stop VERY quickly. I just put it on with my finger tip because I can control it better than with a Q-tip. Nancy Bullard - Vistaplatz

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Subject: Re: Hot Spots (Oil of Cloves) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:49:39 EDT From: Annes4@aol.com To: Vistaplatz@aol.com, berner-l@prairienet.org

In a message dated 04/14/2002 3:23:28 PM Central Daylight Time, berner1@concentric.net writes:

<< go to the drugstore and purchase a tiny bottle of Oil of Cloves (it only come in tiny bottles and your great-grandma used it for toothaches). >>

Last Fall when my daughter had a really bad toothache, I tried about 5 drugstores in our general area trying to find this. None of them carry it any more! None of the major drug store chains or the pharmacies in the grocery chains even knew what I was talking about when I asked the pharmacists for Oil of cloves! Where do you find it these days?

Anne Copeland, Flash,TDI/CGC (Berner, 7 1/2 yrs.) & Gypsy TDI/CGC(Rescue Cavalier,1 yr.) NE ILL Annes4@aol.com BMDCSEW Vice President Ty's memorial page: http://www.geocities.com/workingyorkie/ty.html Gypsy's page:http://hometown.aol.com/annes4/Gypsy.html

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Subject: Re: Hot Spots (Oil of Cloves) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:42:58 -0700 From: Sylvia Katvala To:

Anne,

I got Clove Bud Oil, but have no idea if this is the same as Oil of Cloves or not. Found it at our local Healthfood store.

Sylvia Katvala Tucson, AZ

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BERNER-L Digest 3792

Subject: Re: Hot Spot: HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 09:05:08 -0400 From: "Michael O'Hara, M.A." To: "Cara McGuigan" , "Berner-L"

Benadryl woll relieve the itching but

Here is a great remedy.. and it costs almost nothing.

Boil a large mug of water.. 12 to 16 ounces.

let steep with 4 Tea bags till cool.

add two asparin.

now ... whatever amount of liquid you have ... add an equal amount

of rubbing alcohol...

Apply to hot spot with cotton balls.

You may want to clean the hot spot area with a little antisceptic soap and rinse...

then dry.. using a hair dryer... this will bemove surface dirt.

I have found NO NEED TO SHAVE the coat.

Good Luck...

Michael O'Hara Berners and Hot Spots for 20 years

----- Original Message ----- From: "Cara McGuigan" To: Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 1:00 PM Subject: Hot Spot: HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

Chey has a spot...I tried to search the archives and find this concocktion y'all brag about....but never wrote it down in 4 years chey never had one, but now...lo and behold....go figure.

Other idea from a co-worker was benedryll to take the edge off...any idea?

Chey thanks you because she cant stand her momma constantly wrapping a sock on her foot!

Car---and The Bear (well ma, if she is biting her own foot...then its perfectly normal for me to help her)

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